Powder coated keyholers

infideleggwelder

infideleggwelder

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Cast up a bunch of COWW 314200 for my martini-enfield carbine in .303. I don`t size yet, and did slug the bore with one of the bullets. I did not measure, but the rifling left no mark on the front part of the bullet. It only had marks from the gas (lube groove- Thx B) grooves back, to the bottom of the gas grooves.
Powder coated these, and used 13 gr unique under them. No gas checks
Went shooting today. At 60 yards i was lucky to hit a 4 foot by 3 foot cardboard target, and none poked nice holes. Some hit almost directly sideways. At 25 yards ish, kind of accurate, but disappointing, still keyholeing.
This rifle is ok with paper-patch cast of the same mold as the powder coated ones- not all that accurate, minute of man at 60 yds, but no tumblers.
Got a touch of leading at the muzzle, not a terrible amount.
I`m thinking the bullet is too small to begin with. Thoughts?

- yes, i know i need to measure, and possibly size.
 
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Could be a lot of things. Those "gas grooves" are for traditional lube. You are using pretty hard lead with a light charge. Not sizing your bullets to fit with a hard alloy could certainly produce very poor results.
 
If you are keyholing due to an undersized bullet it can only get worse by sizing.

If paper patch is working it might be the way to go. Other options could be a second coat of PC to bulk it up a little more or a bigger diameter mold.

A soft lead can help but needs to be combined with a powder that gives a good kick in the rear to bump it up. I know black does this well but not sure what smokeless would be a good candidate.
 
B said:
Could be a lot of things. Those "gas grooves" are for traditional lube. You are using pretty hard lead with a light charge. Not sizing your bullets to fit with a hard alloy could certainly produce very poor results.
Click to expand...

To add...

Its called obturation. You need softer lead so that the bullet will obturate(expand) to properly fill the barrel. Try pure/coww at 50/50

The leading might be from hot gasses bypassing the bullet
 
Think i may try a thicker paper for patching and go from there- I`m using onion skin two wraps right now for my lee Enfields - or a thin patch on the powder coated ones.
The chamber in the martini is of very tight tolerances. I patch up past the ogive for the Lees, but it tends to bunch up in the martini And won`t fully chamber when i do that.
 
Unique won't be giving it the kick it needs for obturation especially at the charge you are using. Obturation also goes a long way towards preventing leading. Red Dot peaks high and fast, it's about as much of a kick as you can give and still be shooting at modest velocity. If I wasn't clear, I didn't suggest sizing smaller, just sizing to what is appropriate for your gun.
 
some People ....Depending on Bullet shape / caliber/ Pressure etc still use a gas check when powder coating

and Diameter can be 314 to 316 depending on who made the barrel, and How worn it is/ condition of the barrel
 
It`s an enfield barrel, sharp rifling, no pits. Looks like it has a tiny bit of counterbore, you can see it, maybe a 1/16 of an inch down but it is very minimal in depth. It did not go the full depth of the grooves of the rifling. that could also be the way it was made. Was dark when i got it, but cleaning and paper patching took care of that. I can`t see the chamber without a bore scope, nor do i know how to strip this thing down, and not sure i should Until i know how. I would like to clean it inside and address any rust issues which i know are there.

I will try a new barrel slug soon, get it measured accurately and proceed accordingly with what i can.
 
here is a great little video to remove the breech block ,shows how simple it is to do and easy
ht tps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwpjkqxiY20
 
The strangeness at the muzzle could be a contributing factor too. A counterbore should remove all the rifling and a bit of the grooves as well.

If it's not an issue with paper patch it might not be a huge problem.
 
infideleggwelder said:
Cast up a bunch of COWW 314200 for my martini-enfield carbine in .303. I don`t size yet, and did slug the bore with one of the bullets. I did not measure, but the rifling left no mark on the front part of the bullet. It only had marks from the gas (lube groove- Thx B) grooves back, to the bottom of the gas grooves.
Powder coated these, and used 13 gr unique under them. No gas checks
Went shooting today. At 60 yards i was lucky to hit a 4 foot by 3 foot cardboard target, and none poked nice holes. Some hit almost directly sideways. At 25 yards ish, kind of accurate, but disappointing, still keyholeing.
This rifle is ok with paper-patch cast of the same mold as the powder coated ones- not all that accurate, minute of man at 60 yds, but no tumblers.
Got a touch of leading at the muzzle, not a terrible amount.
I`m thinking the bullet is too small to begin with. Thoughts?

- yes, i know i need to measure, and possibly size.
Click to expand...

Could be any number of problems. What diameter is the bullet? What's your bore diameter? Without knowing those dimensions you're only guessing.

I'm don't know what a 314200 mold is but your description sounds like bullet is a "bore rider" design (nose of bullet undersized) and bore riders are specifically designed to not engage rifling in the nose section. Bore riders aren't always powder-coating friendly. The nose on this bullet must be very undersized if it still doesn't engrave even after powder coating.

If the bullet chambers freely you don't need to size it down. A softer bullet could help, and you'd need to use that with a powder charge that was stout enough to expand the bullet base. That's what I'd try, after I measured the bore and bullet.
 
infideleggwelder said:
314299 noe
Click to expand...
I thought it might be a 314299. That's a "bore rider" design. The nose is reduced diameter about .303" IIRC and theoretically it should "ride" on top of the lands not engage them. In real life the bores on 303 enfields aren't so predictable and if your bore diameter (not groove diameter) is markedly larger than the nose diameter that could be causing your problem. If that's what's happening then the forward 2/3 of the bullet is undersize and unsupported and the bullet might be entering the rifling already cocked. You could try casting some softer PC bullets and shoot them with a warmer powder charge but that might not fix the issue if it's being caused by an undersize nose. If the paper patch bullet shot better that might be the best bet for that bullet in that rifle. That's about as much as I can guess at without knowing some diameters.
 
I have cast 314299 for my no4 mk 1 Canadian make gun and get real tight groups but when a friend tried to shoot my ammo in his savage made lee enfield they all keyed on the paper. the groves could not handle the lead.
 
I`m finding cast is finicky to each rifle- my paper patch shoot well in one, not so much in another, and so on
I have 2 .50 cal investarms muzzleloaders, made the same year with the same rifling- one likes a thick patch with a small ball (.49 cal) the other likes HB bullets dipped in crisco shortening.
 
my bra no1 will shoot pc bullets like a dream. can be loaded hot, medium or mild. I also have a savage no4 two groove that will only shoot with recommended powder charges. the no4 won't shoot lite loads period and I've tried everything. I'm using a lee 90371 sized .314. I've used gas checked and not checked, paper patch, double coats of pc etc. Drop me a pm, if your handy to town I can give you a handful of lee bullets to try.
 
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