I have a 760 Remington carbine 30-06. The barrel is 18 1/2" and I want to shoot 180gr bullets. I think I would normally use H4831 with a 22" barrel but I don't know if this is the best powder to use with the short barrel. I want maximum speed. All I need is minute of moose accuracy. Any advice?
Powder For a Short Barreled 30-06
- Thread starter Gerald
- Start date
You will get the best velocity in a shorter barrel with whatever powder gives best velocity in longer barrels although there will be more muzzle flash and of course less velocity with a shorter barrel than a longer barrel. The ideal powder burn rate is dependent on case capacity and bullet weight not barrel length.
Peak pressure is reached in most modern bottleneck cases after the bullet has moved less than 10". By the time the bullet gets to the end of a 22" barrel the pressure has dropped significantly. If that barrel happens to be 18.5" instead, peak pressure is still reached well before the end of the barrel, but that pressure has a shorter period of time to act on the bullet so there will be a lower muzzle velocity. The extra energy is discharged as light and noise.
Powders that burn slowly enough that an 18.5" barrel is too short wont burn properly in a 30-06 at all. As a result, any powder that works in a 30-06 with a 22" barrel will work in a 30-06 with an 18.5" barrel.
Powders that burn slowly enough that an 18.5" barrel is too short wont burn properly in a 30-06 at all. As a result, any powder that works in a 30-06 with a 22" barrel will work in a 30-06 with an 18.5" barrel.
TheHowitzer
Member
- Location
- Calgary, Alberta
I second that motion! Ive always loved IMR4350 for my .30-06 and .338wm, but I would try that and 4320, and perhaps H4350, but as sushix2 said, if you can get your hands on it
Short of experimenting while using a chronograph to determine velocity you may never know.
In the 60's I read an article where it was suggested to fire some rounds on a dark night in order to determine the amount of unburned powder burning after it left the barrel.
There was considerable difference in the muzzle flash when testing slow powders versus mid range powders using 150 and 220 grain bullets.
One thing I do remember was the loss of night vision using something like 4831 or N205 with the 150 grain bullets but all produced significant muzzle flash and was probably inconclusive.
Unless someone has tested with similar equipment, velocity loss per inch is guess work.
This was before chromos were affordable but since all rifles will vary some your conclusions will come from your loads, your rifle and a chrono.
Sierra tests using a 26 inch barrel, Hornady - 23 3/4, Speer - 22" Remington, and Nosler used two 24" barrels (Lilja and HS Prec.)
From an older Hornady source they used a 22" barrel. With 180 grain bullets, and IMR4831, three grains more powder recorded 100 fps more velocity(2800 vs. 2700 in the Hornady 8th Edition).
I could not find any information from the reloading books in my library to reflect on shorter barrels and definitely nothing in the 18.5 category.
Billdick's suggestion is most reasonable.
In the 60's I read an article where it was suggested to fire some rounds on a dark night in order to determine the amount of unburned powder burning after it left the barrel.
There was considerable difference in the muzzle flash when testing slow powders versus mid range powders using 150 and 220 grain bullets.
One thing I do remember was the loss of night vision using something like 4831 or N205 with the 150 grain bullets but all produced significant muzzle flash and was probably inconclusive.
Unless someone has tested with similar equipment, velocity loss per inch is guess work.
This was before chromos were affordable but since all rifles will vary some your conclusions will come from your loads, your rifle and a chrono.
Sierra tests using a 26 inch barrel, Hornady - 23 3/4, Speer - 22" Remington, and Nosler used two 24" barrels (Lilja and HS Prec.)
From an older Hornady source they used a 22" barrel. With 180 grain bullets, and IMR4831, three grains more powder recorded 100 fps more velocity(2800 vs. 2700 in the Hornady 8th Edition).
I could not find any information from the reloading books in my library to reflect on shorter barrels and definitely nothing in the 18.5 category.
Billdick's suggestion is most reasonable.
The article say how they thought firing in the dark would make determining the amount of unburned powder possible? The muzzle flash out of an 18.5" .30-06 will be astounding no matter what powder you use. And your night vision will be gone too. Ya gotta love those '60's vintage gun rags. They used to say the .45 ACP was a big heavy hard to control cartridge too.
Rick Jameson, I think it was, did a test, in the late 70's/early 80's, on velocity loss by barrel length(that's when the short barrel craze began). Fired over a chronograph, cut an inch off and re-fired. Found the loss was about 100 fps per inch. Not that it matters much.
I'd be thinking 165 grain bullet vs the 180 with IMR4064. Accuracy is far more important but a 165 will kill anything you care to hunt. And have a bit less felt recoil.
Rick Jameson, I think it was, did a test, in the late 70's/early 80's, on velocity loss by barrel length(that's when the short barrel craze began). Fired over a chronograph, cut an inch off and re-fired. Found the loss was about 100 fps per inch. Not that it matters much.
I'd be thinking 165 grain bullet vs the 180 with IMR4064. Accuracy is far more important but a 165 will kill anything you care to hunt. And have a bit less felt recoil.
The suggestion that you will get higher velocities with a faster powder in a short barrel is fantasy incarnate.
I have experimented with this many times, and the powder that gives the best velocity in the longer barrel will be the powder that gives the best velocity in the shorter barrel also.
For example. I owned a M700 Carbine [18.5" barrel] in 30-06. With the 180 grain Hornady FB and IMR 4064, the best I could do was 2555 avg, before pressure signs showed.
This same rifle with Norma N205 and the same bullet made 2702 avg. With the older long grain H4831, I got 2672 avg. The slower powders still worked the best, velocity-wise.
As has been pointed out, the muzzle flash increased, and obviously the noise level increased.
In the 30-06, the velocity loss is nowhere near 100 feet per second per inch of shorter barrel. [more like 25-30 fps per inch]
Regards, Dave.
I have experimented with this many times, and the powder that gives the best velocity in the longer barrel will be the powder that gives the best velocity in the shorter barrel also.
For example. I owned a M700 Carbine [18.5" barrel] in 30-06. With the 180 grain Hornady FB and IMR 4064, the best I could do was 2555 avg, before pressure signs showed.
This same rifle with Norma N205 and the same bullet made 2702 avg. With the older long grain H4831, I got 2672 avg. The slower powders still worked the best, velocity-wise.
As has been pointed out, the muzzle flash increased, and obviously the noise level increased.
In the 30-06, the velocity loss is nowhere near 100 feet per second per inch of shorter barrel. [more like 25-30 fps per inch]
Regards, Dave.
- Location
- Saskatchewan
I use H4350 in my 20" barrel Sako. It gives velocity as good as H4831 and a little less blast.
As usual, just listen to Eagleye on this. I agree with what he has said here. Go ahead and use H4831 with your 180-grain bullets. FWIW, I don't believe H4831 will give you the highest velocities in a .30-06 with that bullet, but it should give you outstanding accuracy. If you want top velocities, you want go with a slightly faster powder, in the 4350 range, or a slow powder with a high nitroglycerine content. For me, Vihtavuori N560 (slow and very high nitroglycerine content) gives the highest velocities in the .30-06, but others like Reloder 22 and 19 and Ramshot Hunter should be in a similar ballpark. All will give a brutal muzzle blast and fire ball out of an 18.5-inch barrel, but you can't have everything.
I have a little Mauser 7x57 military carbine with an 18.5-inch barrel. I use a HEAVY charge of a slow powder and 175-grain bullets. I get surprisingly good velocity and accuracy with this combination, though. I don't mind a loud boom and flash because the rifle likes the load, and that is what matters.
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Whatever powder is mentioned here, make sure you can find published data in a newer manual that has a chapter on reloading for semi-auto rifles.
Don't forget to segregate your brass and full length resize every time you reload your brass with small base dies.
Don't forget to segregate your brass and full length resize every time you reload your brass with small base dies.
Dave.
