Powder for precision: ball or stick

everydayshooter

everydayshooter

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Was having a discussion with a friend today about powders for precision shooting and got to the topic about stick vs Ball powder. From what I know the ball powder should burn more uniformly and should evenly distribute into the case. He was saying that F-class shooters use stick powder like varget or H4895. So just wondering if that’s true and why would it be the case if it is? We both shoot .308.

Bonus question: supposedly magnum primers burn hotter and longer so are they better to use?
 
I use stick powders for most of my reloading because I find that it gives lower velocity spread. I do use ball powders in smaller cases like 223 and 7.62x39 because I can generally fit more in the case for better performance.

Magnum primers depends on the cartridge and powder. I find a CCI 200 is great for stick powders in 308, 6.5x55, and 9.3x62, all using H4895. I use a Federal GM215M (magnum) in 300 WM with H1000. Once you are over 60-65 grains of stick powder a magnum primer should work well.

For ball powders in 223, such as CFE223, I use a CCI 450 (small rifle magnum) because ball powders can be harder to ignite. It works for me and my AR15 is not a precision rig, anyways. I use a CCI 200 in 7.62x39 - an SKS isn't picky. Never had a problem with slamfires even with the floating firing pin.

For the BR guys shooting 308-sized cases with small primer pockets a small rifle magnum is probably a good idea. I think the CCI BR4 is about as hot as the 450 and more consistent.
 
Ball powders tend to burn hot and our target barrels barely last a season as it is.

Ball powders are usually double base and more temperature sensitive - not good for consistent day to day results.

I load stick powder for accuracy loads. I use ball powder for high volume ammo to be loaded directly from the powder thrower.

Standard primers for stick powders, except the real big cases with very slow powder.

Magnum primers for all ball powders. Even and especially in 223.
 
For precision over a wider temperature range it is stick, particularly Hodgdon's Extreme or other temperature stable stick powders. Ball powder loses pressure in cold weather causing the point of impact to drop. In hot weather, ball powder gains pressure and can spike into high pressure.

We were at the range one day with an incoming weather front and temperatures were dropping fast. Shooting Winchester 760 ball powder in a .30/06 zeroed at 300 meters. Why is this thing shooting lower and lower? Why do we have to keep dialing in elevation? The opposite would have happened in hot weather.

How much does pressure have to drop or rise to put the gun out of its accuracy node sweet spot?
 
Dwayne Cyr said:
For precision over a wider temperature range it is stick, particularly Hodgdon's Extreme or other temperature stable stick powders. Ball powder loses pressure in cold weather causing the point of impact to drop. In hot weather, ball powder gains pressure and can spike into high pressure.

We were at the range one day with an incoming weather front and temperatures were dropping fast. Shooting Winchester 760 ball powder in a .30/06 zeroed at 300 meters. Why is this thing shooting lower and lower? Why do we have to keep dialing in elevation? The opposite would have happened in hot weather.

How much does pressure have to drop or rise to put the gun out of its accuracy node sweet spot?
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Often times guys will run hot primers to help counteract the temperature sensitivity thing.

With this in mind I cant understand the appeal of large cases with small primers regardless of how fans justify it. Seems counter productive to the quest for consistency over a wide temperature range.
 
Well thanks guys for the response. I got a bunch of varget I was going to test so I’ll prob make the switch. I’ll save the ball for .223 when I start reloading it.

I read a lot about the difference of the br4 and the 450. Some seem to think they are same and to just use the 450 because of price. I’ve been using 400’s but wasn’t sure if I should switch to 450 or br4 for better results.
 
What are people's opinion on IMR 4166 for precision in .308 Winchester? It is one of IMR's Enduron powders. I am also using IMR 7977 in my 30-06 Springfield loadings. Any opinions on IMR 7977? Both are Enduron stick powders.
 
Carbon12 said:
What are people's opinion on IMR 4166 for precision in .308 Winchester? It is one of IMR's Enduron powders. I am also using IMR 7977 in my 30-06 Springfield loadings. Any opinions on IMR 7977? Both are Enduron stick powders.
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I am just doing a comparison of Varget with 4166 in a 308 Win. All 5 shot groups @ 100M (first day was two groups with Var on the right of the right panel, second day two groups to the left with 4166....using same charge weights as the Var). On the left panel, I bracketed the best 4166 charge weight. I will finish today with the best 4166 charge weight to see if it replicates.
NOTE: I am just playing to get rid surplus bullets that I no longer use...Berger’s shoot better.
Also, when IMR first came out with Enduron 4166, I ran a pound of it against a pound of Var and came to the conclusion they were close to equal in 308 performance.
 
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Canada Ammo has D4895 that is cheap. It has worked very well in 308 Win, 223 Rem and 22-250 Rem loads I have loaded so far.
Varget lot to lot has been inconsistent for me.
H4895 is getting pricey.
 
JEC said:
I am just doing a comparison of Varget with 4166 in a 308 Win. All 5 shot groups @ 100M (first day was two groups with Var on the right of the right panel, second day two groups to the left with 4166....using same charge weights as the Var). On the left panel, I bracketed the best 4166 charge weight. I will finish today with the best 4166 charge weight to see if it replicates.
NOTE: I am just playing to get rid surplus bullets that I no longer use...Berger’s shoot better.
Also, when IMR first came out with Enduron 4166, I ran a pound of it against a pound of Var and came to the conclusion they were close to equal in 308 performance.
Click to expand...

Really curious, do you know what the velocity difference was? Heres the story I've been a Varget guy since I started reloading. I bought 8 pounds on 4166 since I was getting low and Wholesale sports had a wicked deal while they were closing. I haven't used it but it seems the data sounds it takes a lot more 4166 in 308 to get the same velocity. I haven't tested this myself yet. I will soon.
 
Sorry I can’t be of more help with comparison testing, but I had only 5 bullets left ...which I shot this morning ...group on far left, cold round is the high hole (but every hole counts, so it is what it is).
Can’t help with velocity as I was just getting rid of bullets I would never use again so didn’t bother with a chrony. 4166 kernels are larger than Var so case fill will not be the same.
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Has anyone done extensive reloading with Hodgdon's Superformance powder in a 30-06 Springfield? If so what are your observations or conclusions in terms of shot group accuracy. Superformance is a very fine ball powder and it meters extremely well. It also gets top velocity according to the Hodgdon's reloading site. The site states that with a 150 grain Nosler BT and 65.0 grains of Superformance powder, the maximum pressure is only 53,000 PSI and the velocity is 3072 fps. My question is can I get a fast and accurate 30-06 load using Superformance powder?
 
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