Powder for the 45-70

H4831

H4831

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I have played around with quite a variety of powders in my Marlin, 1895, the 21 inch or so barreled, pistol grip variety. Probably tried eight different powders, not all of them in the loading charts for the 45-70. I think my rifle is typical of any of that variety, so if it suits mine, I'm quite sure it will suit yours also. I might be old fashoined, but I never ask my rifle what it likes. I just feed it what I want to. I will say I am amazed at the accuracy of it, for a lever action.
Thinking about a light load, with a capital L, I looked at Unique. Took out a Lee 1.6 cc scoop and levelled off, it held 14.4 grains of Unique. That looked about right so I loaded up five rounds, with a 420 grain flat base cast bullet. The five made a 1.4" group at 100 metres, but four went under an inch. My bullets came from a home caster who uses what alloys he can scrounge. Cheap bullets, lever action rifle, low power scope, we can't hope to get much better than this. I have duplicated the load and get similar results.
The same 1.6 cc Lee scoop holds 22.5 grains of 4227. This was also very accurate.
For medium, light to heavier loads, I tried 4220, and got unspectacular groups. I have dropped it because of better performers.
The same thing for Norma 203. This showed more potential, but I don't have enough powder to bother. Damn, Canadian Tire don't have any Norma 203!
Also, did not have good enough success with Hercules 2400 to bother continuing with it.
I have both Hodgdon and IMR varieties of 4895. Can't see any difference between the two, but either are one of my two best powders. 40 grains of 4895 is about as low as I can get descent accuracy. From there I have gone up to 50 grains and it, or any place in between, will get under 2 inches at 100 metres, virtually every time. Just depends how hard you want to get kicked!
43 or 45 grains of 4895 with 420 cast bullets are very consistant. Just today I was out and 45 grains got me a five shot group of 1.28 inches.
The other powder to depend on is 4198. Very similar, repeatable results. 47 grains is actually low pressure, but kicks like hell, and is accurate.
30 grains is as low as I can get acceptable accuracy. In the 35 to 38 grain range is very good.
I still don't have any 3031, but such a renound reloader as Ted, Why Not, says it is his favourite. Hopefully, I'll get some 3031 at the up coming Salmon Arm gun show.
 
Thanks! I was loading 46 gr. of 3031 with Remington 405's for my Marlin 45-70 yesterday, but that's about the only powder I've tried. Now I 'm curious to try Unique with cast bullets in my gun, and 4198 too! .
 
Hi Bruce, we've had discussions in past on cast bullets and light loads. I still have a quantity of that stop draft foam backer rod for use as filler in light load applications. For those light loads, the two powders I most frequently used that provided decent results with the cast bullet selection I have available are IMR 4227 and Unique. Prior to his passing away, hs 4570 got me started in using Trail Boss for light loads. I've been playing with too many 'toys' lately but preliminary results using TB look very promising and that powder deletes the need for filler. At present I shoot my cast bullets primarily out of a Pedersoli Sharpes that I have the loan of for an unlimited time span:D. The cast bullets I have are;
  • 325gr LFNGC
  • 345gr LFNBB
  • 405gr BB
  • 420gr LFNGC
  • 530gr LFNGC
I've done some shooting of cast in my 1895GS but with the Pedersoli, I now just use jacketed in the Marlin. The jacketed bullets I have on hand are;
  • 300gr Remington SJHP
  • 350gr Hornady FP
  • 400gr Speer Flat-SP
  • 405gr Remington FP
For me in the Marlin, I seem to get the best accuracy performance with the 400gr Speer or the 405gr Remington and using IMR 3031 and IMR 4198.
 
Wow, exactly 14.4 grains of Unique is my light load of choice as well, though I'm putting a 350 grain piece of lead on top of it. Great load!! Clean and very accurate for me.
My shoulder tenderizing loads consist of 48-50 grains of H322 under a 420 grain WFNGC.
 
Johnn, I neglected to say that my loads of 14.4 of Unique were also backed with weather strip. Using the backing also gives another check on making sure it is not a double charge. I charge them and set them in my home made block. Later, pick up each one, look at it and insert the round weather strip. my pieces are all cut about the same length and I seat them full in with something like a pencil end, or dowel. Pretty much eliminates the chance of a double charge.
And Jimmy, did you notice that 14.4 of Unique is a Lee 1.6 cc scoop levelled off, full. That was why I used that charge, for convenience in loading small nmbers of cases.
I know, there are a lot of other powders out there that would be very suitable for the 45-70, in all loading ranges of power. This is one reason I say the 45-70 is so convenient for reloading.
 
Talked with an older gent who worked the gun counter at Edmonton north WSS. (please hear this out) He asked why I wanted IMR 3031, I said it's for my wildcat and a friend's 45-70. He replied his most accurate handload out of his 45-70 (rifle unknown) was with the Remington 405 grain bullet and 47.0 grains of IMR 3031.

Presently my hunting load is 52.0 grains of this powder over a 405 in a Mauser action.
 
Brutus said:
Talked with an older gent who worked the gun counter at Edmonton north WSS. (please hear this out) He asked why I wanted IMR 3031, I said it's for my wildcat and a friend's 45-70. He replied his most accurate handload out of his 45-70 (rifle unknown) was with the Remington 405 grain bullet and 47.0 grains of IMR 3031.

Presently my hunting load is 52.0 grains of this powder over a 405 in a Mauser action.
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"Why Not," uses 50 grains of 3031, I'm not sure of the exact bullet weight he said it was. 52 grains with a 405 bullet must be a good thumper. I definetely have to get some 3031.
In a moment of weakness, sorry Ben, I bought a box of 350 grain jacketed. What's a good load some of you 45-70 aficioada's use for this bullet?
 
I use 48.0 grains of h4198 under a 420 gc bullet and it thumps me good. I ran 52 grains of h4198 under hornady 350 gr jacketed round nose. Both seem plenty accurate for hunting.
 
H4831 said:
"Why Not," uses 50 grains of 3031, I'm not sure of the exact bullet weight he said it was. 52 grains with a 405 bullet must be a good thumper. I definetely have to get some 3031. This was well before I placed optics on my rifle.
In a moment of weakness, sorry Ben, I bought a box of 350 grain jacketed. What's a good load some of you 45-70 aficioada's use for this bullet?
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H4831, if your action can take it, I once won a small local competition with the 350 RN horndays and 55.0 grains of IMR 3031. Had groups of 1.5 inches, sometimes even less with a williams guide sight @100 yards. This was before I put optics on this rifle.

Just like "Why Not's" handload you mentioned, one of my most accurate loads was exactly his same amount, 50.0 grains of the same powder under the 405.
I've had some groups of less than 3/4s of an inch with it. I believe myself this may be the best in accuracy potential, in rifles that can handle it pressure wise.
SAM_0008-2-2-1.jpg

Thank God for the monte carlo stock and mercury recoil reducer!
For some reason I settled on 52.0 grains with 400/405s, I can't tell you exactly why. I guess because my rifle can handle it friend.
This is it, a 458 American (really just a H&H belted 45-70, it's so close to 450 Marlin) in a large ring Mauser action.
 
Yeah the ones I loaded up were pretty brutal. I fired 30 rounds last weekend. They'll be fine for hunting or camping/hiking but not plinking.
 
Throttle_monkey1 said:
Yeah the ones I loaded up were pretty brutal. I fired 30 rounds last weekend. They'll be fine for hunting or camping/hiking but not plinking.
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Another shooting buddy owns a 45-70 Uberti rifle in some single shot action.
He tried IMR 4227 in the same bullet weight as myself, in and around the same velocity as mine, and his reaction too was a one time experiment only.
 
My "hunting" load for the Marlin 1895(22" barrel) and Guide Gun is 53g of 3031 behind a 405g rem.. That load has proven very accurate in all of the 1895's I have owned.

Right now I am using 52g of 3031 in the 1895 cowboy with a 26" barrel, again very accurate.

For anyone starting out, work your way up to loads like these and make sure you have a good dental plan.
 
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