Powder question

Mumptia

Mumptia

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I've been using 39 grains of IMR 3031 over a 165 gr bullet for the past few years with great results.

On the weekend I tried a buddies load and my groups tightened up and the re-coil was even reduced.He was using Re-loader 7. Long story short I'll be using up my 3031 and heading to greener pastures in the spring.

I know many powders cover a broad spectrum of bullets, but I assumed there was data for every bullet with each powder.

I cannot find reloader-7 data for a 165 gr bullet, only for a 150. Is that an indication that I shouldn't load 165's with that powder or is there a better load with a different Alliant powder?
 
sunray said:
Alliant's site has 165 grain data. Not with Reloder 7 and a 165 grain bullet. They are showing Reloader 17 for a 165. 50.0 max. Go here and ask Alliant if they have any data. http://www.alliantpowder.com/questions/default.aspx
IMR4064 is your friend though.
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SR,
I've only ever used 3031 so I have no comparison data for other powders.

What does IMR4064 have over the others?
 
Each rifle has its quirks... I have several bolt action 308's, and they all shoot Reloader 15 better than 4064. In fact Re 15 wins in the majority of my 30 cal rifles.
The issue here is powder speed, Re7 is generally too fast for a 308. Matching powder speed to a rifle is one of the fundamentals of reloading. You dont mention whether your buddies loads were 150 or 165 gr.... If they were 150's, I would suggest that the change in bullet weight was responsible for your accuracy improvement.
FWIW - You could use the Re7 load data for 150's in your rifle with 165's, but you would find that the MV would be anemic - hence the light recoil.
 
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Mumptia said:
On the weekend I tried a buddies load and my groups tightened up and the re-coil was even reduced.He was using Re-loader 7. Long story short I'll be using up my 3031 and heading to greener pastures in the spring.
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Ask your buddy what he loaded.

Reloder-7 is quite a fast rifle powder. Nothing wrong with using it in a .308 with 165s, bearing in mind that you're not going to be able to get quite as much velocity with thirty-something grains of Rx7 as you would be able to get with forty-something grains of Varget or 4895. Also, do realize that you will be developing MAX pressure with Rx7 at charge weights much less than the medium burn rate powders - you don't want to keep adding more Rx7 because your not yet getting 2700fps with your 165s. It's much easier to inadvertently load up a "proof" round with Rx7....!

Having said that, it is a very clean burning, very short grain powder, that meters very well.

The reduced recoil from your buddies load would be because the muzzle velocity was lower than your load (and recoil is proportional to bullet weight times muzzle velocity).

cosmic said:
FWIW - You could use the Re7 load data for 150's in your rifle with 165's, but you would find that the MV would be anemic - hence the light recoil.
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I think you have that backwards. A safe amount of Rx7 behind a 150, would generate more pressure behind a heavier 165.

My 1994-vintage "Hodgdon Data Manual No. 26" indicates a max load of:

.308 Win / 150 gr - max 39.0 Reloder-7 2744fps 47,200CUP
.308 Win / 165 gr - max 37.0 Reloder-7 2671fps 48,400CUP
.308 Win / 180 gr - max 35.0 Reloder-7 2511fps 48,600CUP
 
I think you have that backwards. A safe amount of Rx7 behind a 150, would generate more pressure behind a heavier 165.

My 1994-vintage "Hodgdon Data Manual No. 26" indicates a max load of:

.308 Win / 150 gr - max 39.0 Reloder-7 2744fps 47,200CUP
.308 Win / 165 gr - max 37.0 Reloder-7 2671fps 48,400CUP
.308 Win / 180 gr - max 35.0 Reloder-7 2511fps 48,600CUP[/QUOTE]



Quite true - excuse the MOM (middle aged moment), thanks for catching this.
 
Hi

Using IMR3031 in a .308 win? You don't own a crony do you? Cause if you did, you would of realized that 3031 sucks in a .308 win. It's all bang and flash and slow velocities.

Varget and Reloder15 (I use the latter) make the .308 shine. IMR 4064 and 4895 have their fans as well, but you will get better velocities and still maintain the accuracy with RL15 and Varget.

Sticker
 
Sticker said:
Hi

Using IMR3031 in a .308 win? You don't own a crony do you? Cause if you did, you would of realized that 3031 sucks in a .308 win. It's all bang and flash and slow velocities.

Varget and Reloder15 (I use the latter) make the .308 shine. IMR 4064 and 4895 have their fans as well, but you will get better velocities and still maintain the accuracy with RL15 and Varget.

Sticker
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You're kidding, right, or did you mean 4831?? 3031 will drive a 150 gr bullet from a .308 up to 2900, that is hardly enemic. Sierra list Re-15 with a 150 a bit slower than 3031.
 
Boomer said:
You're kidding, right, or did you mean 4831?? 3031 will drive a 150 gr bullet from a .308 up to 2900, that is hardly enemic. Sierra list Re-15 with a 150 a bit slower than 3031.
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Are you quoting a book, or factual data, cronied from your rifle.

What I said, I proved to myself, shooting through a crony. Published data in books are a guide, and even from the same publisher their data will often contradict itself one edition to the next.

Rl-15 slower velocity then 3031 with a 150grn bullet. :bsFlag: I've shot a few hundred rounds of 150grn bullets through a crony to know what works best. 3031 is all noise, and flash.

I gave away my last can of 3031 years ago, but if you think the stuff is better in .308 Win, just because a manual says so, then I have 2 international bridges I want to sell you. Hell I like you, buy now and I'll throw in a power dam,FREE:evil:


Sticker
 
It was a 150 sst that I shot with the R-7

Couldn't believe the difference in performance from the 3031. Lower report, lower everything.

I do own a chrony and my 165's with 3031 were going down range fro 2550 to 2600fps. BUtr as said with a big bang as compared to the R-7.
 
Sticker said:
Are you quoting a book, or factual data, cronied from your rifle.

What I said, I proved to myself, shooting through a crony. Published data in books are a guide, and even from the same publisher their data will often contradict itself one edition to the next.

Rl-15 slower velocity then 3031 with a 150grn bullet. :bsFlag: I've shot a few hundred rounds of 150grn bullets through a crony to know what works best. 3031 is all noise, and flash.

I gave away my last can of 3031 years ago, but if you think the stuff is better in .308 Win, just because a manual says so, then I have 2 international bridges I want to sell you. Hell I like you, buy now and I'll throw in a power dam,FREE:evil:


Sticker
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I've used 3031 extensively in bunch of cartridges including the 308 and the .30/06, and yes I have chronographed the loads as well. To say I haven't shared your experience is an understatement. I don't know how you would get a noisy flashy muzzle blast from a powder as quick as IMR 3031 unless your barrel is real short. It's not my favorite powder in the .308, but I've always appreciated 3031 for its mild manners, and decent accuracy but each to their own.
 
I agree. 3031 is a good powder in the .308 Winchester, especially with 150 grain bullets. IMR always listed it as a top or nearly top velocity performer.
Now, if you were using some of the Higginson surplus '3031', then you might experience some great muzzle flash. In my experience, of course.
 
Al-Sway said:
I agree. 3031 is a good powder in the .308 Winchester, especially with 150 grain bullets. IMR always listed it as a top or nearly top velocity performer.
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Boomer's 150 @ 2900fps with 3031 in a .308 sounds surprisingly high. For example, my old Hodgdon load manual indicates max 43.0 grains IMR3031, 2706fps 50,900CUP

Now, if you were using some of the Higginson surplus '3031', then you might experience some great muzzle flash. In my experience, of course.
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The "Type 44" (it was in a brown rectangular cardboard can, marked something like "3031 equivalent" or "use 3031 data") powder, yup it had spectactular muzzle flash. The first time I ever used it was from a Garand, and the flash was visible to me in bright daylight as I was shooting the rifle (!).

(BTW, if anybody has this powder, keep a careful eye on it, more so than usual, for signs of deterioration)
 
Back in the days of Ammo Mart I recall getting a box or two of some 4831 equivalent powder that I wanted to use in my .30/06 with 165 gr bullets. Even with a drop tube I couldn't get the load the manuals suggested, and that stuff boomed pretty good and velocity was lower than I wanted until I began using it with heavier bullets.

If this 3031 equivalent powder came from that plant in Scotland, chances are it has similar flame or should I say lack of flame retardant coating, so it would behave much differently than IMR 3031.

The load I mentioned above comes from the current Sierra manual. Naturally any loads found on a public forum should be viewed with caution and any maximum load, as this one was, should be approached carefully. I don't shoot light bullets in the .308 I have now, (3031 is a bit quick for heavy bullet loads) and because of the way this rifle is built it would not be useful to load 150 gr bullets to test as velocities would be much higher than would be expected from a factory rifle due to the long throat and 28" barrel.
 
If your looking for the best powder for speed in a .308win hands down its RL 17 now available in Canada, RL 15 & Varget are close as well.
For accuracy a few years back shooting benchrest a light load of IMR 4895 & Imr 4064 alos H 4895 where the top powders shooters used with 168gr Match bullets these loads produced sub
.250" groups in Heavy & light benchrest rifles
manitou
 
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