Powder shelf life ?

PaulT

PaulT

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Eh you out there... :) ......

How long can one keep reloading powder on the shelf before it is considered inconsistant or not good anymore? :confused:

I don't know, just asking as I start to have some leftovers from differents powders in my shop so... can you keep powder on a shelf for years, like 10-15years?

And what would happen if an "older" container of powder (lets say 10years old) was to be compared with identical new powder freshly bought, would the "old" powder have lost any of its "combustion properties" ?

Heard something about the smell, when it's not good anymore, it it supposed to smell different... not sure..

Thanks
 
First of all don't go sniffen that powder, bad, bad, second the powder will last a long time if stored in its original container, in a cool dry dark place.
That was smokeless, now black powder is a bit differant, it will explode, old black powder must be handled with care. Not a big deal but good to know , one burns fast the other explodes.
Frank
 
Levi Garrett,

Yah.. thanks to specify, wanted to mention it and it left my mind. I would like to know for both, smokeless and BP as well.

When you say BP "explode", what exactly do you mean? If you drop the container on the floor, what would happen :eek: ?

Just had a vision working in a shop filled with all these old BP containers slowly changing into NITRO aaaarrrrgggg ;) . Don't cough .. I mean really :eek: .

Thanks
 
I'd be surprised if a can of old blackpowder spontaneously exploded. Real surprised. It's strongly hygroscopic (readily absorbs moisture) and gets less sensitive over time.
 
When I was young and even more foolish than now a bunch of us kids made our own black powder---lots of it. We had the help of our friendly neighbourhood pharmacist, who gave us safety tips every time he sold a new batch of ingredients. There was only one accident of any kind.

One of the guys made up two one quart sealers full in anticipation of Halloween. These he carefully hid in the back of his mother's jam cupboard in the slightly damp basement. This is the story he told us, and I saw the results: "Mom, Dad and me were sitting in the kitchen having breakfast. I happened to be looking across the room, and I swear I saw the floor rise a couple of inches, followed by one hell of an explosion. Some windows broke and the whole house shook. I knew right away what happened---the powder went off by spontaineous combustion."

There were no windows left in the basement, and glass fragments were imbedded almost everywhere there was exposed wood. The entire winter stock of jam was spread evenly throughout the basement. His punishment was to clean up the mess---and that was all.

The powder had not been too tightly sealed in the jars, but the jars had been crammed snugly in behind all the jam, and protected with old towels stuffed between the jars to eliminate accidental breakage. There it sat for about two months before that fateful day.
 
Actually, I agree that BP is more dangerous than smokeless powder, and for the same reason as you. It is underestimated by many people.

I did make black powder when I was a kid, albiet in a crude form. The formula and method was clearly explained in the school's encyclopedias. Unfortunately, I made the mistake of showing my friends how to as well, and of course they told two friends, and they told two friends, etc... The drug store very quickly pulled the KNO3 and the flowers of sulphur from the shelves.

Anyway, I've never heard of old black powder spontaneously igniting, and I can't concieve of a chemical reaction possible for normal deterioration of the components that would do so, unless there is some explosive salt that could develop that I'm not aware of. Since I'm not a chemist, this could very well be so, but I've never heard of such a thing, nor was I able to turn up such a story on the internet.

As far as I am aware, exposure to moisture, even over a long time, only makes black powder more difficult to ignite, not more sensitive. As I understand it, the white crystals observed in deteriorated black powder are hydrated saltpeter precipitating out of the compound - again, making it less explosive rather than more, and the worst danger posed by deteriorated powder is a potential hangfire.

If you guys come accross any documentation of spontaneous detonation, please post it. Much as I'd hate to be proven wrong, I'd hate even more to see a third of my garage decorating the block :D
 
Your question about comparing a can of old powder to a fresh new can of powder. Yes there may be a difference but it may not be from deterioration but from changes in formulation or manufacturing in the past 10 years. Some companies keep the same POWDER name but change things a little ,so there may be some differences. As a rule don't use very old reloading info on maximum loads with new powder. In fact every new lot or new can of powder should backed off a few grains and worked back up to your MAXIMUM LOAD. If it is a minimum load there may be a change but not a dangerous one.
 
spi said "If you guys come accross any documentation of spontaneous detonation, please post it. Much as I'd hate to be proven wrong, I'd hate even more to see a third of my garage decorating the block"

I did not witness the actual explosion in the story above---only the results. Nor do I have any documentation regarding spontaneous detonation. However I have been told that spontaneous combustion can happen with damp hay, oily rags in a sealed container, piles of manure, and damp sawdust. If the conditions were right in a loosely sealed container of damp black powder I believe that enough heat could be generated to begin combustion. With b.p., combustion equals Kaboom.

I too would like to see a more precisely documented instance of this in real life. In the meantime I'll continue to follow the old saying "Keep your powder dry".;)
 
Over a period of time BP does slowly deteriorate through the separation of its component chemicals when in the presence of moisture. Add water to sulpher and you get an acid.

I have not heard of BP spontaneously combusting, must have been something to iniatiate it, probably through moisture and/or contaminates in the mix that either reacted or heated up.

Smokeless powder is usually a nitrocellulose base, used by treating cellulose (they used to use cotton) with nitric acid (= guncotton).

If the acid is not neutralized in the finished product then the powder can deteriorate. Hence the warnings about the "acidic" smell of deterioratied powder. (This is a very simplified explanation. There are a lot of other components that go into smokeless powder)
 
I have some powder in my possession that went out of production more than 30 years ago [Norma 205] It is still as good as the day it was made, and chronograph results bear that out, with velocities being right where they should be in several chamberings. On the other side of the coin, I discarded two pounds of IMR 3031 made in 1997 and a tin of IMR 4831 made in 1998 that had started to deteriorate, and had an acidic odor accompanied by "rusty dust" in the powder. Storage conditions are a factor in powder life, as well as some of the other things previously mentioned. Ideally, cool dark places with little variations in temperature are best. Regards, Eagleye.
 
Eagleye said:
I have some powder in my possession that went out of production more than 30 years ago [Norma 205] It is still as good as the day it was made, and chronograph results bear that out, with velocities being right where they should be in several chamberings. On the other side of the coin, I discarded two pounds of IMR 3031 made in 1997 and a tin of IMR 4831 made in 1998 that had started to deteriorate, and had an acidic odor accompanied by "rusty dust" in the powder. Storage conditions are a factor in powder life, as well as some of the other things previously mentioned. Ideally, cool dark places with little variations in temperature are best. Regards, Eagleye.
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If you store your powder correctly and keep it away from temperature & humidity fluxuations, smokeless powder can last for decades.

When I started reloading, I had a keg of Hodgdon 4831 & a couple pounds of H-BLC2 from the late 1950s or early 1960s.The fellow that gave them to me had them tested, and they were fine.I got some really good loads out of that old powder.

I still have the old fibreboard 4831 keg.There had to be at least 50 pounds in that keg.

In fact the BLC2 shot so well, I started to use it as my main .308 powder.

SKBY.
 
Skullboy, everything you said X 2.

I started handloading with a 20# keg of H4831 (new) and when that was gone I bought about half of a 50# keg that had been in a guy's nice dry basement for decades.

It's all gone now except the big, empty keg which holds about a hundred rolled up maps. I bet the new stuff from Higginson's, nicely wrapped in plastic and 7 pound boxes could last a hundred years. But not in my loading room.:D
 
I bought some pyrodex at a gun show used stuff but the seller had it sealed up in its orignal container and a vacume sealed bag around it.

Is that a good thing to leave on there till i need to use it :confused:
 
My current .38 Spl powder is Dupont #6 pistol powder - it was discontinued about 1955. Firing a cylinder full of rounds reloaded with this old powder shows small extreme spreads, usually no more than 15 fps.

Shotgun and pistol powders store remarkably well if kept in reasonable conditions, as do all ball powders. Extruded rifle powders keep well for the most part, but some will fail with time. The only powders I've had go bad were old (35-50 year old) extruded rifle powders. High temperature is the main enemy of smokeless powder.

Powder that has gone bad smells NASTY, rancid and acidic. You will do yourself no harm sniffing a can of powder to check it for breakdown. If it's bad I assure you that you will take but one sniff! It is normal for powder to smell of solvent; it is "sweet" smelling compared to bad powder.

Properly made black powder will last longer than any of us will live if you keep it dry and cool. I have fired 100+-year-old black powder rounds and they fired just fine.
 
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