Powder storage
- Thread starter GMJim
- Start date
Are the required regs not in post 14
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2013-211/page-36.html#docCont
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2013-211/page-36.html#docCont
Everybody knows the regs but nobody can put a link up that explains them. Guy's I respect your opinions but opinions are like bellybuttons. Everybody has one. This is all I've been able to find. http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/explosives/acquisition-storage-sale/9829
It doesn't say how or where to store the stuff.
Check out the storage recommendations here, about halfway down the page.
http://www.alliantpowder.com/getting_started/safety/storage_handling.aspx
Smokeless powder is a propellant but may cause explosive effects if contained in a vessel that prevents adequate venting of the gases produced by its combustion. Otherwise it is a self oxygen producing accelerant of short burn duration. Its combustion is so rapid it flares. I used to pull a lot of surplus ammo for the brass. I would fill an empty plastic bottle with the waste powder until I got about half a pound or so. I would take this out to the yard, spread it out in a line on a piece of plywood and light it with a BBQ starter. It burned so fast it would hardly scorch the wood. If that had been black powder I would have probably been injured. As a solid, smokeless powder doesn't produce flammable vapors. It can't be smothered once it starts. Spontaneous combustion is possible but I have never heard or read of it with modern powder. I only buy in one pound containers and to reach the storage limit of 25kg I would need to have approximately 55 full containers. I am in a detached dwelling and the 2 kg caveat doesn't apply. If I were in an attached dwelling that drops to 44 full containers as long as none are over 2 kg. I store primers, ammunition and powder separately but in the same room which is located in a cool dry basement. All are under lock and the room locks. I use wooden containers with loose fitting lids or doors. Powder is split up into lots of 5-10 containers in each wooden box.
Hope this helps.
http://www.alliantpowder.com/getting_started/safety/storage_handling.aspx
Smokeless powder is a propellant but may cause explosive effects if contained in a vessel that prevents adequate venting of the gases produced by its combustion. Otherwise it is a self oxygen producing accelerant of short burn duration. Its combustion is so rapid it flares. I used to pull a lot of surplus ammo for the brass. I would fill an empty plastic bottle with the waste powder until I got about half a pound or so. I would take this out to the yard, spread it out in a line on a piece of plywood and light it with a BBQ starter. It burned so fast it would hardly scorch the wood. If that had been black powder I would have probably been injured. As a solid, smokeless powder doesn't produce flammable vapors. It can't be smothered once it starts. Spontaneous combustion is possible but I have never heard or read of it with modern powder. I only buy in one pound containers and to reach the storage limit of 25kg I would need to have approximately 55 full containers. I am in a detached dwelling and the 2 kg caveat doesn't apply. If I were in an attached dwelling that drops to 44 full containers as long as none are over 2 kg. I store primers, ammunition and powder separately but in the same room which is located in a cool dry basement. All are under lock and the room locks. I use wooden containers with loose fitting lids or doors. Powder is split up into lots of 5-10 containers in each wooden box.
Hope this helps.
Last edited:
freezer filler
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Windsor, Ontario
Perfectly safe and legal. It's smokeless powder that burns, not old sweaty dynamite, The regulations were amended to reflect that reality.
And all they say is that "no unauthorized persons shall have unlimited access" I keep mine in a Rubbermaid tote on a shelf in the garage.
I think what everybody needs to understand is that they are storing a legal quantity of powder for their own personal use.
So here's the current laws yet again http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2013-211/page-35.html#docCont
And a handy definition from the act as to what constitutes a storage magazine:
magazine
means any building, storehouse, structure or
place in which any explosive is kept or stored, but does not include
(a) a place where an explosive is kept or stored exclu-
sively for use at or in a mine or quarry in a province in
which provision is made by the law of that province
for efficient inspection and control of explosives
stored and used at or in mines and quarries,
(b)a vehicle in which an authorized explosive is being
conveyed in accordance with this Act,
(c) the structure or place in which is kept for private
use, and not for sale, an authorized explosive to an
amount not exceeding that authorized by regulation,
(d) any store or warehouse in which are stored for sale
authorized explosives to an amount not exceeding that
authorized by regulation, or
Probably a dumb question on my part...
Can a storage unit be a secure gun room? I don't see anything saying it must be detached or outside of your home. It says dry, no sparking material on shelves, secure and marked with a sign.
Can a storage unit be a secure gun room? I don't see anything saying it must be detached or outside of your home. It says dry, no sparking material on shelves, secure and marked with a sign.
freezer filler
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Windsor, Ontario
Perfectly safe and legal. It's smokeless powder that burns, not old sweaty dynamite, The regulations were amended to reflect that reality.
And all they say is that "no unauthorized persons shall have unlimited access" I keep mine in a Rubbermaid tote on a shelf in the garage.
I think what everybody needs to understand is that they are storing a legal quantity of powder for their own personal use.
So here's the current laws yet again http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2013-211/page-35.html#docCont
And a handy definition from the act as to what constitutes a storage magazine:
magazine
means any building, storehouse, structure or
place in which any explosive is kept or stored, but does not include
(a) a place where an explosive is kept or stored exclu-
sively for use at or in a mine or quarry in a province in
which provision is made by the law of that province
for efficient inspection and control of explosives
stored and used at or in mines and quarries,
(b)a vehicle in which an authorized explosive is being
conveyed in accordance with this Act,
(c) the structure or place in which is kept for private
use, and not for sale, an authorized explosive to an
amount not exceeding that authorized by regulation,
(d) any store or warehouse in which are stored for sale
authorized explosives to an amount not exceeding that
authorized by regulation, or
I have never noticed a typical shelf design which restricted access to unauthorized individuals.
If your gun room is in your house then it's not a storage unit. A storage unit is separate from a dwelling. Here is the definition of a storage unit from the Explosive Regulations.
storage unit means a building, structure, place or container in which *explosives are stored and that is not licensed. However, it does not include a dwelling or any structure, place or container in a dwelling. (unité de stockage)
Ok. Thanks everyone.
That is interesting because if you build a small structure (dog house?) outside and mark it - you are basically saying "steal me" or "light me up". This does not seem to be well thought out (or maybe it is?).
That is interesting because if you build a small structure (dog house?) outside and mark it - you are basically saying "steal me" or "light me up". This does not seem to be well thought out (or maybe it is?).
Looks like you have to go to https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/explosives/ and find your way to the right section from there?
The government never makes anything easy.
It depends on where the shelf is located. Mine are on a shelf too, in my reloading room. Yes it has a lock on the door.
Thanks everyone for your input. First of all I don't lay awake at night worrying about this and used to keep my powder on the top shelf of the cupboard over my loading bench in the basement. My kids were little then and the powder was out of sight and out of reach. I never gave much thought to the safety issues because I am a careful person and my occupation made me even more aware of what can happen when you don't pay attention. In my 30 years as a full time firefighter then Captain I never responded to a fire or incident caused by the mishandling of gun powder and related items but that didn't mean we didn't train for it because of incidents on record from other municipalities. As a shooter and reloader myself, nothing gets your attention more than running down the stairs of some guy's house for a basement fire and see a reloading bench and a musket hanging on the wall.
My concerns now for myself isn't primarily about safety. Our sport/hobby is very closely scrutinized and if we get sloppy some do right politician will use it to try and take more of our rights away and maybe our guns. Do you want to be the guy who starts that ball rolling? My concerns are complying with the law (even if I disagree with it) and more to the point my insurance company. IF you have a gunpowder accident regardless of the circumstances and you haven't complied with the law to the letter, your insurance company will drop you like a hot rock. Have you read your policy regarding this subject?
And more to the point about the storage box which isn't clarified in any of the regulations i have found, I didn't worry about this much until recently when I brought home an 8 pound container of powder and told a friend of mine who is a police officer and shooter himself about not being able to find one pound containers. He brought up a good point and said he read about a recent break in to a home and a box containing gun powder was stolen among other items (no details available). He said if the stolen gun powder is used in a crime at some point the person who originally owned the powder could be charged if storage laws weren't followed. By the way the guy who's house was broken into reported that he thought he had been followed home from the range. They were likely after his guns but couldn't get them for some reason.
I find it foolish to lock up your powder and label it such for security reasons but at the same time a good idea to protect the people who have to come into your home to help you in the event of a fire. I'm going to call Natural Resources when I get a chance and ask them for clarifications on this and will post what they say.
In closing and getting off my soap box, don't think $hit can't happen to you. I've been face to face with a lot of people who said "I never thought it would".
All of this conversation started with me looking for some information regarding a storage box for powder and I think it may have provoked some though for others.
Thanks
My concerns now for myself isn't primarily about safety. Our sport/hobby is very closely scrutinized and if we get sloppy some do right politician will use it to try and take more of our rights away and maybe our guns. Do you want to be the guy who starts that ball rolling? My concerns are complying with the law (even if I disagree with it) and more to the point my insurance company. IF you have a gunpowder accident regardless of the circumstances and you haven't complied with the law to the letter, your insurance company will drop you like a hot rock. Have you read your policy regarding this subject?
And more to the point about the storage box which isn't clarified in any of the regulations i have found, I didn't worry about this much until recently when I brought home an 8 pound container of powder and told a friend of mine who is a police officer and shooter himself about not being able to find one pound containers. He brought up a good point and said he read about a recent break in to a home and a box containing gun powder was stolen among other items (no details available). He said if the stolen gun powder is used in a crime at some point the person who originally owned the powder could be charged if storage laws weren't followed. By the way the guy who's house was broken into reported that he thought he had been followed home from the range. They were likely after his guns but couldn't get them for some reason.
I find it foolish to lock up your powder and label it such for security reasons but at the same time a good idea to protect the people who have to come into your home to help you in the event of a fire. I'm going to call Natural Resources when I get a chance and ask them for clarifications on this and will post what they say.
In closing and getting off my soap box, don't think $hit can't happen to you. I've been face to face with a lot of people who said "I never thought it would".
All of this conversation started with me looking for some information regarding a storage box for powder and I think it may have provoked some though for others.
Thanks
I can't find a definition of unauthorized persons, however I would assume anyone under 18 that has unrestricted access would fall into that category based on this from the Explosive Regulations
Age restriction
10 A person must be at least 18 years old to carry out an *activity involving an explosive. However, this requirement does not apply to a person who acquires *small arms cartridges for their own personal use. It also does not apply when these Regulations provide for an exception.
And this for an unlicensed user storing powder in a dwelling
Storage requirements — dwelling
281 (1) When small arms cartridges are stored in a dwelling, they must be stored away from flammable substances and sources of ignition. People not authorized by the user must not be given unlimited access to the cartridges.
I store my powder in wooden boxes marked explosives. This way if my house catches fire and the fire department enters my garage, they see them and they can remove them. A wooden powder box will not build dangerous levels of pressure like a sealed metal container in a fire, the wood box will vent and burn long before that happens. A simple latch locks the box to keep kids out.
So I can allow anybody I choose access to my ammunition and powder , but under the F.A cannot "transfer " cartridges to said person unless they have a PAL...
Not too worried myself, just my wife and I, powder and ammo are in separate closets.
