This may be a dumb question, but I don't want to make any mistakes with this stuff. For instance, IMR4350 and H4350 are they the same powders? With the same burn rate and specs (within reason) just made by 2 different companys? So when a reloading book says use IMR 4350 can I substitute H4350?? I noticed a lot of powders have the same numbers.
Powder types
- Thread starter Bush Man
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- Calgary, AB
As you get into reloading a bit more you will find in some cases the loading data can be interchangeable. One such example is IMR 4350, it has a slightly faster burn rate than H4350, so the H4350 can safely be substituted.
That being said, not all IMR powders are faster than H powders and it's not a good idea to transpose those loading datas as a general rule of thumb.
The internet is a fantastic resource, go to the powder manufactures website and check their loading tables if you're not sure.
If you aren't sure or don't know, don't trust chance, it can and will eventually bite you.
I still have a flashing memory of an old timer shooting a No4 MKl at the range on day. He had been handloading it for years with H4831 (bought by the 50lb keg for $25) Well to make a long story short when the surplus powder ran out, he purchased a can of IMR4831( at the same cost for a pound as it cost him for 50lbs)
He didn't have a handloading manual, scale or even a decent press. He used one of the Lyman kits with powder scoops and a leather mallet etc.
His go to powder measure was a cartridge case that had been cut off to hold the best powder charge for his particular rifle. He also handloaded 7x57, 30-06,8x57 and 300Savage useing the same powder and cut down cases as measures. He never changed bullet weights and believe it or not, it is a darned efficient method with very little to go wrong. UNLESS, one or more of the components is changed, ESPECIALLY THE POWDER.
The No4, didn't blow up but, it did emit a lot of flame around the bolt etc and the case head separated as well as the extractor disappeared.
He had used the same charge of IMR4831 as H4831. The IMR powder again is faster. His load was very simple, and as he was a self taught handloader, and someone in the know had told him "you can't get enough 4831 (there was only one in the 50s and sixties) to ever blow up a rifle"
Walter applied the same reasoning to all of the cartridges he loaded, "fill the case to the base of the bullet when seated with just a slight crush"'
4831 is a very foregiveing powder and he got away with it for 35 years without incident. BUT MAKE JUST ONE LITTLE CHANGE LIKE SUBBING IMR FOR H and all hell breaks loose.
SAFETY FIRST, IF YOU'RE NOT SURE, DON'T DO IT.
Sorry for the long post and it's not meant oto be a hijack.
Seeing as you're new and have enough sense to ask for advice, you should also get alittle information to go with it. There is a well known surplus powder seller in Canada, HIGGONSON'S, they have some great buys if you have enough experience or access to information on some of the over run requirement powders from the major commercial loaders.
They usually supply at least a minimal data guide or a safe "equivilant" powder listing to consult in your manual. They are very sure to point out that the suggestd tables will provide "SAFE" although may not the best loads for the specific powders.
Another issue, each batch of powder, even though it's from the same supplier and has the same designation will be slightly different. When you buy a new can of powder, even though it will be safe to use, it may have a slightly faster or slower burn rate than your previous can and may cause erratic accuracy, same for primers, bullets and cases. When buying components, check the packageing for lot numbers and try to match up as many as possible for better load consistancy.
If you decide to load a lot of ammunition, it is a good idea to buy your powder in bulk lots, like the 8lb kegs offered by the commercial makers.
bearhunter
That being said, not all IMR powders are faster than H powders and it's not a good idea to transpose those loading datas as a general rule of thumb.
The internet is a fantastic resource, go to the powder manufactures website and check their loading tables if you're not sure.
If you aren't sure or don't know, don't trust chance, it can and will eventually bite you.
I still have a flashing memory of an old timer shooting a No4 MKl at the range on day. He had been handloading it for years with H4831 (bought by the 50lb keg for $25) Well to make a long story short when the surplus powder ran out, he purchased a can of IMR4831( at the same cost for a pound as it cost him for 50lbs)
He didn't have a handloading manual, scale or even a decent press. He used one of the Lyman kits with powder scoops and a leather mallet etc.
His go to powder measure was a cartridge case that had been cut off to hold the best powder charge for his particular rifle. He also handloaded 7x57, 30-06,8x57 and 300Savage useing the same powder and cut down cases as measures. He never changed bullet weights and believe it or not, it is a darned efficient method with very little to go wrong. UNLESS, one or more of the components is changed, ESPECIALLY THE POWDER.
The No4, didn't blow up but, it did emit a lot of flame around the bolt etc and the case head separated as well as the extractor disappeared.
He had used the same charge of IMR4831 as H4831. The IMR powder again is faster. His load was very simple, and as he was a self taught handloader, and someone in the know had told him "you can't get enough 4831 (there was only one in the 50s and sixties) to ever blow up a rifle"
Walter applied the same reasoning to all of the cartridges he loaded, "fill the case to the base of the bullet when seated with just a slight crush"'
4831 is a very foregiveing powder and he got away with it for 35 years without incident. BUT MAKE JUST ONE LITTLE CHANGE LIKE SUBBING IMR FOR H and all hell breaks loose.
SAFETY FIRST, IF YOU'RE NOT SURE, DON'T DO IT.
Sorry for the long post and it's not meant oto be a hijack.
Seeing as you're new and have enough sense to ask for advice, you should also get alittle information to go with it. There is a well known surplus powder seller in Canada, HIGGONSON'S, they have some great buys if you have enough experience or access to information on some of the over run requirement powders from the major commercial loaders.
They usually supply at least a minimal data guide or a safe "equivilant" powder listing to consult in your manual. They are very sure to point out that the suggestd tables will provide "SAFE" although may not the best loads for the specific powders.
Another issue, each batch of powder, even though it's from the same supplier and has the same designation will be slightly different. When you buy a new can of powder, even though it will be safe to use, it may have a slightly faster or slower burn rate than your previous can and may cause erratic accuracy, same for primers, bullets and cases. When buying components, check the packageing for lot numbers and try to match up as many as possible for better load consistancy.
If you decide to load a lot of ammunition, it is a good idea to buy your powder in bulk lots, like the 8lb kegs offered by the commercial makers.
bearhunter
I don't believe that is what was meant.....because H-4350 is slower burning then IMR-4350, you could use data for the faster burning powder with h-4350 as pressure should be lower. I wouldn't think along those lines however, treat each powder as it is something very different, regardless of it's number.
This is what I read. Anyway I didn't realize the hodgdon's has their load data on the internet. I just looked in my nosler load book and it was using imr4350 and since I can't find any in town I bought H4350. Now I understand, thanks for clearing it up.
OK! [hijack]What's the deal with Clays, Universal, Universal Clays and Clays Universal? I know Clays' one, and Universal's one, but are the other two just name variants?Ask here if you have trouble finding what you need.
I'll have to check when I get home from work, but I recall having read a bunch of recipes involving Clays Universal in my Hornady manual a bunch of recipes with just Universal in my Lee manual. One and the same?[/hijack]
