Powders for 303 Brit

The Lee Enfield was designed with a compensating characteristic with respect to velocity.
1) Hows the bedding on the rifle?
1) Let your groups tell you what the rifle likes, not the chrony.
2) Listen to Ganderite
 
cosmic said:
The Lee Enfield was designed with a compensating characteristic with respect to velocity.
1) Hows the bedding on the rifle?
1) Let your groups tell you what the rifle likes, not the chrony.
2) Listen to Ganderite
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1. No fricken clue. It is a barely used, minty No4 Mk2. Eventually I plan to send it off to an expert to sort the bedding out.

2. I am at step #1 of reloading for this thing. At this point just trying to figure out what powders and loads produce what velocities with different bullet weights. I had several that were quite close to the published book velocities, I had one that was too hot and one that was too soft. I just put together round two of initial load testing. Once I'm in the ballpark for velocities, I will shoot some groups and see how those turn out.

3. I wasn't not listening, only pointing out that those blanket statements were not consistent with the results I got.
 
We'll save you some expense. The fore-end on the rifle should create an upward force on the barrel, somewhere around 4 lbs IIRC. Additionally, the barrel should be centred in the forend.
 
Ganderite said:
Not a theory. A fact. That is why I shared it. You loading manual probably makes the same recommendation.

If you don't want to see of the 748 and BLC2 do better with a magnum or Winchester primer, don't try.
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You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
 
Using varget for my 150 gr FMJ loads, and VV540 for my 150 gr SP loads.

Why the difference, well I'm almost out of the 540, and was using them for the SP loading, so I switched to varget for my fmj loads. Will eventually all go to varget, and try to limit my powders that I have to find.
 
This cartridge comes with the usual contenders Hodgdon/IMR 4198,4064,varget,4895 and Alliant reloader 15 are what I tired in the past. As a learn more some powders are close enough in burn rate to use to replace another

4198 and reloader 7 for one.
 
cosmic said:
The Lee Enfield was designed with a compensating characteristic with respect to velocity.
1) Hows the bedding on the rifle?
1) Let your groups tell you what the rifle likes, not the chrony.
2) Listen to Ganderite
Click to expand...

This is true of all rifles, but particularly true for a #4.

Shoot a survey of powder charges in 0.3 g increments (like 40.0, 40.3, 40.6, 40.9, etc.) Let barrel cool a bit between each 5 shot test.

You will find a point where the group is very tall (not good group) and a point where it is round. Round is good.

What is important to know is that the group will only be good at that distance. If you want a 100 load, test at 100 yards. But it could be terrible at 300.

If you want a 300 yard load, test at 300, but it may be poor at 100 and 600.

ES and SD do not matters. What matters is the velocity that compensates for that rifle. The survey test will help you find that particular sweet velocity.
 
Keep in mind that the service load is not designed to give best accuracy, it's designed to give decent accuracy and the highest reliable impact on target. Knocking 10% off the velocity of the service load is a good place to start for accuracy, then as mentioned go up until you hit the best node for the harmonics in your rifle. My very similar No 4mk2 shoots 39 grains of 4064 very poorly at 100 but much better at 300, so again each rifle is its own book. My EAL shoots 40.8 very well at 100, but horribly at 200 and it's not much fun to shoot. Every Enfield I've shot has had a different pet load, some cooler, some hotter, generally I find the older the gun, the slower the end of the powder range it prefers, except for the LEC which is an absolute bugger to shoot with it's favourite load and shoots better with hotter loads, which presents other issues in a 120 year old plus rifle.
 
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Came across an interesting article on powders.

https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/ball-powder-st-marks-powder/462658

The relevant passage to this thread being:

Ball powder played a major role as a small-arms ammunition propellant during World War II. WC846 was originally designed for and used in the .303 British cartridge during the war. Interestingly, the Hodgdon Powder Company was started in order to salvage propellant from 20mm ammunition and WC846 — called “BLC-2” by Hodgdon
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So it would seem BL-C2 might be the best choice for 303 reloads as it was actually designed for the 303 cartridge during the war.
 
846 is made according to a recipe. As is common in a plant, the powder is tested, lot by lot, to calculate the speed. This info is shared with the ammo companies who buy the non-canister powder (by the ton). If the powder tests out as a match for a canister powder, it get put aside for that.

Most lots are outside canister specs, so as sold as such. I can recall buying "fast 4895" or "slow 4320", etc. Red Dot shotgun powder was sold as RD1, RD2, Rd3 and RD 4. 4 different speeds.

In the case of 846 the powder is tested. If it is fast, it is sold as WC 844. If it is slow, it is sold as WC846. The canister version of these two powers are H335 and BLC2.
 
Its too bad RE-15 is unobtainium these days. After numerous trials with various powders, bullets and guns (Rosses, P-14's, LE's) I found it hard to beat. Varget, which is available these days, came in a very close second. I'm not sure that BLC2 was promoted with the same criteria you have in mind. I'm guessing manufacturing ease and plant capacity had a major play...
 
cosmic said:
I'm not sure that BLC2 was promoted with the same criteria you have in mind. I'm guessing manufacturing ease and plant capacity had a major play...
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The documents I found talked about consistency, which is exactly what my initial testing showed.

Almost all military ammo is loaded w ball powder. There has to be a reason for that.
 
cosmic said:
Its too bad RE-15 is unobtainium these days. After numerous trials with various powders, bullets and guns (Rosses, P-14's, LE's) I found it hard to beat. Varget, which is available these days, came in a very close second. I'm not sure that BLC2 was promoted with the same criteria you have in mind. I'm guessing manufacturing ease and plant capacity had a major play...
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I have used RL15, N140, N150, and Varget to make top-quality match 308. The charges are thrown with a Chargemaster. There is a slight edge to N140 and Varget is more forgiving with ambient temp.

For mass production on the Dillon, I use surplus 844 or 846 because it meters perfectly.

I just bought 3 8 pounders of N-140 for the season.
 
I Dont Care About You said:
Hmmmmm .... I have access to about 20 lbs of WC844. Never considered using it for match ammo.
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Do some load development. I can work well.

But, be aware that on a hot day it will have a higher pressure. If you develop a load in cool weather (spring) test it at another half grain to see what happens. If the group blows, back off for summer loads.

To a lesser extent, the same applies to RL15 and N140-150. This is why Varget is popular.
 
Pressure and consistency wise, I'm loving the BL-C2. It produces excellent velocities with less than max loads and near full cases. Haven't had a chance to try it for accuracy yet ... what with all the snow and cold weather. :(
 
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