Preferred loads or bullets for .233 / 7" twist ...

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Tikka223

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Hello folks ... I'm trying to determine what my Savage 12 VLP will shoot the best. Actually, what I would love to figure out is what is the absolute best I can expect from the rifle so I know how much my shooting skills take away from the group sizes. It's .233 Rem with a 1-7 twist. Thus far I've shot Hornady's 55gr. V-max and 75 gr. BTHP, both out of box ammo. I've also shot a couple groups of Nosler 55gr.

So far, if everything goes well on my part, the Savage is giving me groups of around .8" at 100m. I recently took it to 300m on a windy day with the BTHPs and I got group sizes of 4.32", 3.01" and 3.46".

I am going to get some help learning to hand load some BTHPs and I'm hoping it will shrink the groups slightly.

I'm slowly reading through Jerry's 90gr. Berger VLD threat.

Any other suggestions for ammo or loads. Savage owners, please speak up.

Thanks!
 
i plan to be loading my model 12 1:7 with 75gn amax and 77gn MKs

hand loading will significaly shring your groups once u find the proper load, from what iv been reading the gun should be 1/2 moa at 100.

the thing to remember here is that your shooting a factory gun with factory ammo and while savage has a rep for being very accurate these days, it wont even compete with a custome build so u cant expect those results.

its hard to say what you or the rifle are capable of.. i hope your buddy is experianced that he can help you find the barrels node, and then its a matter of practicing untill your groups dont get any smaller
 
scallywag said:
What's wrong with 1 moa groups with a factory rifle and factory ammo
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f:P: Because when you reload you get better performance and lower cost. Why shoot factory through a rifle that can do better? I'm getting under 0.5" and I'm not even trying. Put some serious work to it and it's prob down to 0.25"!

12 LRPV Left Port

75 gr A-Max 23 gr H335 grouping under 0.5"

80 gr Nosler HPBT CC 22 gr H335 under 0.5"
22.5 gr H335 just above 0.25"

90 gr SMK 21.9 gr BL-C2 under 0.5"
21.7 gr Varget under 0.5"

I had some pressure issues with H335 and the Nosler 80's when I stepped it up so I started low with the Varget and BL-C2. Both of the 90's chrony'd about 2450 fps. I have much more work to do!
 
I can't wait to try some reloads. All these people sayinghow they get .5 MOA not only makes me jealous, I worry that I've ended up with a less than average Savage. At the same time I am trying to be very sober about this, when I say .8" at 100m thats an actual average ... I'm not one of those guys who gets a lucky group and then start saying it's what the rifle shoots (just be clear I'm not accusing anyone of lying here!).

Rookie question: what are SMKs?
 
Reloading will very likley give you much better performance. Under an inch with factory ammo? I'll bet there's much better just waiting to be discovered. Those groups of mine are all actually smaller but there's not enough shooting to say there better.
 
Bed it, handload, high enough mag in a quality scope to aim precisely, account for the winds and test/tune at 200yds.

Most Savages in 223 that I have shot average 1/2 min with quality match bullets from Hrn, Sierra, Berger, Nosler. I lean towards Hrn as they are inexpensive, readily available and shoot very nicely.

Some barrels have preferences so you may need to test a couple of bullets to see what it likes to shoot.

Varget, CCI 450, 80gr Amax or Berger VLD in Win (or any other brand that had a bit of prep work), go have fun.

There are a few articles on my website TECH section that will help with load tuning. You need an accurate scale and load to the 0.1gr.

You can keep the bullet to mag length if using the 80's or just off the lands if using the 90's and single feeding.

If you are getting sub MOA at 200yds with factory ammo in a new rig, that is a very promising sign.

Load tune, watch the winds (use flags), and all the other test procedures necessary for itty bitty groups - see what the pipe will give you.

Jerry
 
Hopefully, I can keep this thread alive for a while!

I've got the same model 12 1:7" rifle as you and very slowly working up a load, and testing a large number of different projectiles.

So far I've got:
  • 69gn Sierra Match Kings HPBT
  • 75gn Hornady A-MAX (currently testing)
  • 77gn Nosler Match HPBT
  • 77gn Lapua Match HPBT
  • 80gn Hornady A-MAX (still on backorder:()
  • 80gn Berger VLD (almost forgot!)
  • 65gn Sierra Game Kings SPBT (for hunting, next load to develop)

I'll keep the brass, powder, and primers the same by using Lapua, Varget, and CCI BR-4.

I've been spending alot of time trying to find a place to shoot past 100 yards, but my one successful day was with the 75gn AMAX, groups less than 0.50MOA at 250 yards (groups so good I need to go back and confirm the range before I say exactly what I found).

I don't have the load data on me but I was supprised to see that the hottest load (25.0gn) was the least accurate group, still sub MOA though. The hot spots I found were around 24.1gn and another around 23.5gn (If I recall correctly).

I've already loaded up another 28 rounds to fine tune the sweet spots I found last time. Seating the bullets to touch the lands, which (with the Hornady 75gn) is too long to mag feed...



As luck would have it I lost my damn camera, but I'll post some pics ASAP. I've also got a good spreadsheet set up with graphs I'll share once they show something worth sharing!
 
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How do you find the feed path for the Savage. I am considering the VLP DBM but I have seen some mag fed Savages that won't single feed worth a darn. No good if I want to play with long bullets. I like the option of mag feed though for Precision matches where I need a follow up shot.
 
Bolivar said:
How do you find the feed path for the Savage. I am considering the VLP DBM but I have seen some mag fed Savages that won't single feed worth a darn. No good if I want to play with long bullets. I like the option of mag feed though for Precision matches where I need a follow up shot.
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Good point. The feed path on the Savage is my biggest dislike. I believe the benefit of this is the unique design of the barrel nut, which makes swapping barrels or changing headspace easy to do at home if you've got the spanner wrench.

Mag fed, the rifle will feed properly as long as you move the bolt in a continuous movement.

Single fed, you need to actually feed the round into the chamber by holding it by the base and sticking the projectile inside the little chamber before you close the bolt. It's not a simple as tossing the round into the chamber (on top of the mag) and closing the bolt unfortunetly (that will jam 100% of the time).
 
Tikka223 said:
I can't wait to try some reloads. All these people sayinghow they get .5 MOA not only makes me jealous, I worry that I've ended up with a less than average Savage. At the same time I am trying to be very sober about this, when I say .8" at 100m thats an actual average ... I'm not one of those guys who gets a lucky group and then start saying it's what the rifle shoots (just be clear I'm not accusing anyone of lying here!).

Rookie question: what are SMKs?
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In my experience shooting half MOA is not always as easy as some make out. And its even harder with factory barrels. The main thing is to enjoy your shooting and try to improve but don't get hung up on groups on the internet.

My favourite load with my 8 twist shilen is 80 grain smks driven by imr xbr 8208.
69 grain smks are very good too. 80 grain amax are currently my least favoured bullet (I reserve the right to change my mind later)..
 
warrenb, switch to varget and I bet you will love those 80gr Amax. 8208 is pretty fast for this bullet weight

HD, 24.1gr seems to be working for a number of Savage with the 75gr Amax including mine (had 2 - Stevens and VLP). Tweak a bit either side for best results if needed.

Single feeding the new center feed mag is not going to happen UNLESS you make a small ramp that can fit inside the mag to lift the case UP into the chamber.

You can glue a hunk of wood or use some modeling clay to get the height angle right. The mag lips will support the case if put on - definitely cant just toss the case into the action. The ramp will force the case up so that it misses the base of the barrel and voila, single feeding.

Just play around with the height and you will get it to work. The bolt will push this ramp down into the mag so that the bolt will close.

Simple fix. Another part that I may make as time allows.

Jerry
 
Mystic Precision said:
warrenb, switch to varget and I bet you will love those 80gr Amax. 8208 is pretty fast for this bullet weight

Jerry
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Jerry, I started out using varget. I went through quite a few 80 amax looking for a consistent load. The 8208 and the smks, although only 2770 fps, is looking good.
 
Haagen - Mystic

Thanks for the information. Duely noted. I am surprised there is a problem. I don't recall the same issue with single feeding my Savage Scout. Must have to do with diameter of the case and the geometry of the mag. I suppose a slow manual feed is not the end of the world but......

What other options exist for fast twist 223 rifles? Do I have to look at custom? Re-barrel a Rem?

Lots to think about.
 
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Just loaded up my first hand-loads; Hornady .223 Rem brass, Hogdon H4895, Federal 205 primers, 75gr. Hornady BTHP bullets.

I've loaded up 5x 22.5 grains, 5x 23 grains, 5x 23.5 grains, 5x 24 grains, 10x 24.3 grains, 10x 24.5 grains, and 10x Amax with 24.5 grains.

Also a big thanks to Daniel for showing me how this stuff works.

Will report on how these initial loads work out.
 
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