Press upgrade - Mark 7 Apex 10 or Dillion RL1100 ?

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prairieguy

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I saw a similar post in the reloading forum and no one replied so I am putting this here.

I have been using a Dillion XL650 for many years and it’s been giving me grief of late. I have never liked the primer feed system on the 650 and it’s time for something new and improved.

I want to upgrade to a higher volume manual press with more stations. A primer pocket swage station will be a welcome addition. Been doing some research and the two options I see are the Mark 7 Apex 10 and the Dillon RL1100. Does anyone have any experience with either or both of these machines? Which one did you choose and why?

I have to say that over the years Dillon has provided superior customer service. Does Mark 7 have the same level of customer service?
 
I have been using a 650 for a few years with no problems, my friend uses a 1100 and it is a great working machine with high volume, as with any progressive machine keeping them clean
is the trick to good operation.
We both live within a short distance of Dillion here in Arizona so they are my go-to for
replacement items. If Dillion has been giving you good service i would stick with.
Good Luck
 
old-zedar said:
I have been using a 650 for a few years with no problems, my friend uses a 1100 and it is a great working machine with high volume, as with any progressive machine keeping them clean
is the trick to good operation.
We both live within a short distance of Dillion here in Arizona so they are my go-to for
replacement items. If Dillion has been giving you good service i would stick with.
Good Luck
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply. Dillon has been really good to me over the years. I have been able to stop in at their shop in Scottsdale more than a few times while on vacation.

There are a few things about the Mark 7 which I feel make it superior in those respects to the Dillon. The 10 station tool head with room for separate bullet feeding and powder check as well as separate case mouth flare and powder feed are useful features. Are they worth switching from Dillon?
 
I have Dillon 1100 and Mark7 Evolution although both are automated, not hand cranked. I also have a 750 and the priming system is better on the 750 than the 650.

Swaging on a progressive press makes a tedious job virtually painless as unless the primer crimp is insanely large you won't even feel it.

I have not used the Apex 10 but I assume it's going to be good as the Evo.

I like both presses and both companies. The dillon is a little simpler to work on, the M7 is more complex but needs less work. They both cost about the same.

Lots has to do with if you need the extra stations on the M7. If you are doing your ammo loading in one stage the extra spaces on the M7 are nice to have. I do my ammo in 2 stages so it's no big deal. Adding in extras like bullet feeders and powder checks the extra slots are nice too.

I think one failing of the 1100 is not being able to easily mount a hold down die over the primer station.

I would buy both presses again.
 
Gatehouse,

I presume when you say you reload in two stages you size and deprime/swage, then clean the brass before resuming the reloading steps. Do you use separate tool heads for these stages or are you able to use a single toolhead and divert the brass out after deprime and swage? If you have to swap toolheads is it difficult and/or time consuming?
 
Doing ammo in 2 stages can be done a bunch of different ways, everyone seems to have theoir own route.

i start with washed brass then I lube, decap, swage, prime and size.

Then if it's rifle brass I throw it in the tumblers with some walnut shell and mineral spirits for a bit to get rid of the lube. Handgun lube I use Hornady one shot and just leave it on.

Second pass gets powder, powder check, bullet feeder and seat/crimp. Most people will prime on the second pass too, I just like the 1100 priming system better than the system on my particular M7 which has always been a bit finicky. But it's an older model. And priming first means one less thing to deal with during loading.

You are limited on both presses where you can put the powder thrower so if I want to seat and crimp separately I use the M7 with it's extra stations.

I use separate toolheads so I can keep them set in place all the time. Switching toolheads is easy and quick.
 
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Gatehouse said:
Doing ammo in 2 stages can be done a bunch of different ways, everyone seems to have theoir own route.

i start with washed brass then I lube, decap, swage, prime and size.

Then if it's rifle brass I throw it in the tumblers with some walnut shell and mineral spirits for a bit to get rid of the lube. Handgun lube I use Hornady one shot and just leave it on.
Click to expand...
Why would you prime before cleaning the cases? That just runs the risk of getting crap in the flash-hole. Never in a million. years would I think to primer before final cleaning.
 
For the OP:

I run 223 on two 1050's. One is dedicated to primer pocket swage, trim, size. Then cases are cleaned of lube. The second machine primes, charges and seats bullets.

I deprime and initial clean on a Lee APP, which is super fast and easy to use. Also keeps primer mess contained, which is its best feature.
 
I Dont Care About You said:
Why would you prime before cleaning the cases? That just runs the risk of getting crap in the flash-hole. Never in a million. years would I think to primer before final cleaning.
Click to expand...

The cases are already clean. I am just removing the lube. Most people will prime during the loading stage though.

I prime in the first stage so I only have to pay attention to refilling the bullet feeder, powder measure and case feeder and not concern myself with the priming system. When you use automated presses things can happen fast so it's nice to not have to worry about extra things. There is no risk of the flash hole being plugged up, but I only use this method on bulk plinking ammo as I am superstitious enough that I would worry about it for hunting or precision ammunition.
 
prairieguy said:
I saw a similar post in the reloading forum and no one replied so I am putting this here.

I have been using a Dillion XL650 for many years and it’s been giving me grief of late. I have never liked the primer feed system on the 650 and it’s time for something new and improved.

I want to upgrade to a higher volume manual press with more stations. A primer pocket swage station will be a welcome addition. Been doing some research and the two options I see are the Mark 7 Apex 10 and the Dillon RL1100. Does anyone have any experience with either or both of these machines? Which one did you choose and why?

I have to say that over the years Dillon has provided superior customer service. Does Mark 7 have the same level of customer service?
Click to expand...

You are in the same boat as I was a few months ago.

I have a 650 which has a ton of rounds through it and it has been solid (it had gotten to the point that some parts were simply worn out and needed to be replaced as it was playing up but after a few tweaks things are good again). I REALLY wanted swaging for which there are no good options with the 650.

I then started to look at what was out there and ended up looking at the options you mention. I watched this video from Devon and it really helped me as he goes through the pros / cons of each:


In the end I stumbled into a good deal on an automated Apex 10 during Black Friday. I have been so busy I still havent set it up but it seems awesome and really well built. I reached out to Mark 7 as I found that the press I received had the gen 1 primer system (which seemed to be the weak point for many people) and they were super helpful so no issues there.

I will also mention that I was quietly watching the Mark 7 Genesys project (all new automated press that uses motors to independently move everything as opposed to mechanical indexing, supposedly coming in at a similar price point to the automated Apex 10) in the background and it looks like a winner but it is taking them a long time to get it to market (supposedly it was put on hold while they concentrated on their top of the line Titan system which is now complete).

I think this will be a winner but with the unknowns of when it will come to market and if there will be teething problems coupled with the fact that I got a deal on an Apex 10 now made me move forward but food for though.
 
Gatehouse said:
Doing ammo in 2 stages can be done a bunch of different ways, everyone seems to have theoir own route.

i start with washed brass then I lube, decap, swage, prime and size.

Then if it's rifle brass I throw it in the tumblers with some walnut shell and mineral spirits for a bit to get rid of the lube. Handgun lube I use Hornady one shot and just leave it on.

Second pass gets powder, powder check, bullet feeder and seat/crimp. Most people will prime on the second pass too, I just like the 1100 priming system better than the system on my particular M7 which has always been a bit finicky. But it's an older model. And priming first means one less thing to deal with during loading.

You are limited on both presses where you can put the powder thrower so if I want to seat and crimp separately I use the M7 with it's extra stations.

I use separate toolheads so I can keep them set in place all the time. Switching toolheads is easy and quick.
Click to expand...
Agree ^^^^

Two stages (in some order, there are multiple) is the way forward. I might even go to three.

On fired 9mm cases I will throw in the wet tumbler without pins to get 90% of the crud off, then dry and lube.

First pass is to deprime and resize then its clean again with pins. Cases are super clean / deprimed / resized and swaged at this point.

I can either load with priming from here or prime the cases which will then be staged ready to load for whatever the application is. I am leaning towards priming as a separate stage initially at least until I can confirm that the priming system is solid as messing around with a wayward priming system while loading powder etc is a recipe for disaster IMO.

The other issue is that it is hard to know what to load as I tailor my loads to specific guns (I imagine most do the same same) and with those Liberal rats banning stuff left and right I will probably just load small amounts for the foreseeable in case one of the guns I load for becomes verboten hence having primed cases makes sense.
 
sonichanxiao said:
Apex 10, eventually both would cost about the same as Dillion needs to add more components/parts to be fully automated.
Click to expand...

Indeed, the video I linked explains that part pretty well.

To sum it up he explains that if you already have the Dillon it is a great machine and can be automated but if buying new the Apex was built from the ground up to be automated.

Doesnt sound like the OP plans to automate (at least not right away) but it is nice to have the option and having had a Dillon and Mark 7 my vote goes to Mark 7 (Dillon is still solid to be clear)
 
With the price point of these 2 presses these days it’s hard to make an argument for a Dillon. The Apex changed all that.

Earlier M7 models were a huge price difference between dillon.
 
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