Price of 7.62x51 (.308 Win.) versus 5.56 NATO (.223 Rem?)

[Iloverevolvers]

I thought that I had narrowed down my post-PAL 2-firearm purchases to the new 10/22 breakdown model and a mini 14 stainless ranch, but I've made the mistake of dawdling just a bit too long in the current-military forum, as well as watching some youtube videos, and I'm pretty impressed with what I've read and seen about the M305s of various makes that have various stock configurations.

So I'm still certain on the 10/22, but I'm no longer certain on what the other rifle will be, although I am certain that it will be either a mini or an M305.

In deciding which, I am quite naturally looking at the cost of either milsurp or current Norinco ammo and I am surprised to see that both calibers are remarkably similar in price. Apparently, the 7.62 might be a much "bigger bang for the buck" (perfect place for this old saying, don't you think?).

Anyway, is my newbie observation about price correct (again, as far as milsurp and current Norinco production goes)?

 

[whitetailwoodsarcher]

i would go with the m305 (7.62 nato) in my opinion its better then the 5.56/223 because with fmj you can shoot game down to rabbits, but you can also hunt up to moose with right ammo. with the 223 you can only really shoot coyotes an down. you can take deer but it may not be legal in your prov. 7.62 all the way!

 

[Beadwindow]

Your decision will depend upon what you want to do with your rifle.

While .223 is great for varmint hunting and target shooting, you might want to have a calibre that could double as a hunting rifle for deer, bear or moose. The M305 in .308 will do that.

Price of ammo is a variable thing, as considerable time may vary between shipments of surplus ammo, and sometimes even ammo from the states (I forsee shortages if Americans fearing another Obama win decide to stockpile on ammo JIC he introduces restrictive regulations). If you can afford to pick up some of the .308 surplus currently available I'm pretty sure you won't be dissappointed. Over the long term it might be a good idea to start reloading.

Good luck with whatever you chose.

 

[Iloverevolvers]

Thanks for the advice, guys.

A bit OT, but while I'm on the subject of 7.62 versus 5.56, I'd like to discuss a purely hypothetical situation for purely academic purposes.

If a person lived in the states -- you know, the place where one is allowed by government to use a firearm to defend one's life in one's own home -- there is available so-called light, frangible ammo in 5.56 (or certainly .223). Heaven forbid if they should have to be fired in that situation, but, if they do, these bullets will almost certainly not travel through the intended target and an outside wall and then penetrate the wall of a neighboring home and then perhaps kill again. I'm sure you know what I mean (again, for that person living in the states, that is).

Is there ammo availble in 7.62 (.308) that would have at least close to the same characteristics and, if it were, could it be reliably used in an M305?

 

[whitetailwoodsarcher]

Thanks for the advice, guys.

A bit OT, but while I'm on the subject of 7.62 versus 5.56, I'd like to discuss a purely hypothetical situation for purely academic purposes.

If a person lived in the states -- you know, the place where one is allowed by government to use a firearm to defend one's life in one's own home -- there is available so-called light, frangible ammo in 5.56 (or certainly .223). Heaven forbid if they should have to be fired in that situation, but, if they do, these bullets will almost certainly not travel through the intended target and an outside wall and then penetrate the wall of a neighboring home and then perhaps kill again. I'm sure you know what I mean (again, for that person living in the states, that is).

Is there ammo availble in 7.62 (.308) that would have at least close to the same characteristics and, if it were, could it be reliably used in an M305?

well there is one ammo that may work. its called fushion lite. it basically a 30-30 with a 308 shell. it has around 2000fps at the muzzle and 1500ft lbs. it also has 50% less recoil. but i dont know if it will cycle reliable in semi autos. it works great in bolts though. i tested it on water just and it went trough 2 of them. which is around 30 inches of water, but in a person they have bones and it a house you have wood studs or even cement. if your really consered with having over penetration, go with the 223 but the 7.62 nato kicked it but in ever class besides weight.

 

[Iloverevolvers]

well there is one ammo that may work. its called fushion lite. it basically a 30-30 with a 308 shell. it has around 2000fps at the muzzle and 1500ft lbs. it also has 50% less recoil. but i dont know if it will cycle reliable in semi autos. it works great in bolts though. i tested it on water just and it went trough 2 of them. which is around 30 inches of water, but in a person they have bones and it a house you have wood studs or even cement. if your really consered with having over penetration, go with the 223 but the 7.62 nato kicked it but in ever class besides weight.

Thanks for that information, whitetailwoodsarcher.

I did a search and found that round, I think, and it looks like it might be just the ticket.

"This specialized hunting bullet electrochemically joins pure copper to an extreme pressure-formed core to ensure optimum performance. The result is high terminal energy on impact that radiates lethal shock throughout the target. This energy is optimized through mass weight retention, a top-secret tip-skiving process and superior bullet integrity. Muzzle velocity of 2000fps."

Although I was hoping to find a lighter bullet weight -- say 120gr. -- heavy and slow may actually be better than lighter, faster and frangible.

And because it supposedly gives the shooter 50% less recoil, I think it may also be less loud than a regular load, but I might be wrong on that. A report that is less-deafening would be a very good thing, IMO.

I'd like to know with a fair bit of certainty that this ammo reliably cycles an M305, so what I'd likely do is buy a box and find a local CGN member who both owns that rifle and would be interested in getting this question answered for him/her self, as well as testing how many wall-samples of typical residential construction would be penetrated by this round.

 

[whitetailwoodsarcher]

Thanks for that information, whitetailwoodsarcher.

I did a search and found that round, I think, and it looks like it might be just the ticket.

"This specialized hunting bullet electrochemically joins pure copper to an extreme pressure-formed core to ensure optimum performance. The result is high terminal energy on impact that radiates lethal shock throughout the target. This energy is optimized through mass weight retention, a top-secret tip-skiving process and superior bullet integrity. Muzzle velocity of 2000fps."

Although I was hoping to find a lighter bullet weight -- say 120gr. -- heavy and slow may actually be better than lighter, faster and frangible.

And because it supposedly gives the shooter 50% less recoil, I think it may also be less loud than a regular load, but I might be wrong on that. A report that is less-deafening would be a very good thing, IMO.

I'd like to know with a fair bit of certainty that this ammo reliably cycles an M305, so what I'd likely do is buy a box and find a local CGN member who both owns that rifle and would be interested in getting this question answered for him/her self, as well as testing how many wall-samples of typical residential construction would be penetrated by this round.

i would be happy to test it but i dont have an m305 to test it with. if you reloaded you would be able to load up a nice 100-120 grain to make it frangible.

 

[burnaby]

The CanAmmo m305 shorty and their Norinco 7.62x51 is a blast to shoot. Cheap ammo at 50c/rnd + tax. Still cost more than 223 but way more fun if you want to feel some recoil.

 

[Turkeyslayer 1300]

Buy a .223 and a .308 later on.

 

[JR86]

Get one of those mini-14 target rifles. Sub MOA accuracy and way cheaper to feed. Unless you're gonna buy bulk .308 is gonna run you 1$ a shot atleast, and .223 will run you less than half that. More shooting = more fun

 

[GUNMANSHIP]

I thought that I had narrowed down my post-PAL 2-firearm purchases to the new 10/22 breakdown model and a mini 14 stainless ranch, but I've made the mistake of dawdling just a bit too long in the current-military forum, as well as watching some youtube videos, and I'm pretty impressed with what I've read and seen about the M305s of various makes that have various stock configurations.

So I'm still certain on the 10/22, but I'm no longer certain on what the other rifle will be, although I am certain that it will be either a mini or an M305.

In deciding which, I am quite naturally looking at the cost of either milsurp or current Norinco ammo and I am surprised to see that both calibers are remarkably similar in price. Apparently, the 7.62 might be a much "bigger bang for the buck" (perfect place for this old saying, don't you think?).

Anyway, is my newbie observation about price correct (again, as far as milsurp and current Norinco production goes)?

You may want to consider weight. A small bore 223 is obviously lighter than most 308's especially a Norinco M305. When I fire my AR and remington 700 tactical, I root for my 308, but the ammo fee woes kick in soon after.