price to play IPSC

[maxpig]

I use this one a lot, as I know more people who golf than shoot.

For a middle of the road golfer I think the costs are almost identical.
Good clubs=good pistol
green fees=ammo...

accessories, add-ons and upgrades are a regular thing (new putter or driver vs. new mags, sights etc.)

so what you're telling me is I should take up golf then..
but a couple of things I do know about golf is... there is no Black Putter training required ( hence the "Nationally regulated" that Mobile1 was referring to) before you walk on the course and you can suck at it anywhere in the world....

this thread was started for the cost of starting up not how much it costs to participate.... any sport costs money to play we all get that ...
how many middle to low wage players you see out on the greens every week and travel 3-4 hrs to play in a league?? they have to pick and choose according to their budget.

But there is no fee to start up playing golf, hockey, badminton, archery etc.... there are charges for court, ice, field but no mandatory training... sure we play with potentially dangerous "extreme" sport but the costs associated to the training will keep those persons who have the equipment and wish to participate on a monthly or occasional basis when their budget will allow them too because a 160.0 more or less is not in their budget when milk or gas is more important... but 50-60 once a month or every couple of months is doable...
remember not everyone one of us are filthy rich or of modest income but of lower income and have the desire to participate and enjoy themselves klike the golfers do but just can't justify the start up cost....
juniors get a break because theoretically they are broke and can't afford the costs....

with the comments of this thread I see that IPSC has become (perhaps it always was) an elitist sport more than a welcoming sport and with that attitude it'll languish away till no new young person of non IPSC tradition/exposure joins up and fills in the ranks ... unless we change

 

[Walter Hornby]

while a wayward shot in golf, hockey, badminton, archery might kill some one the odds are low. the odds are a wayward in ipsc would probably kill a person or maim them.

as well in most of these sports if you want to make it any further then your local club you are going to be taking lots of seminars, coaching clinics etc at a cost well in excess of $200. i think hockey camps start at a $1000 and go up. golf lessons i think run about $75 an hour an up.

 

[maxpig]

while a wayward shot in golf, hockey, badminton, archery might kill some one the odds are low. the odds are a wayward in IPSC would probably kill a person or maim them.

I agree and that's why I mentioned that already in my post... not talking about removing the safety training at all...

as well in most of these sports if you want to make it any further then your local club you are going to be taking lots of seminars, coaching clinics etc at a cost well in excess of $200. i think hockey camps start at a $1000 and go up. golf lessons i think run about $75 an hour an up.

We have training , skill improvement courses as well... Rob Elliott, Steve Russell, DOC (out west) are some I know of and the many others who offer them do an excellent job to improve your game... But these remain voluntary and depends on your comfort level of affordability whether to enroll in these courses or not... But Maditory is required and I know of about 12 ( I just counted them on my fingers and two big toes) people who are interested in shooting the odd outdoor match but cannot / do not afford the black badge costs for only shooting possibly 2-3 matches a year...

however your rebuttal post still doesn't talk about the costs of the mandatory safety training. Stay on topic... compare apples to apples. Not the cost of participating/competing or improving...

The discussion is the initial cost of entering the Sport.... And how the cost of BB course "MAY"/"IS" the prohibitive barrier to some or all interested shooters.

 

[ckc123]

But there is no fee to start up playing golf, hockey, badminton, archery etc.... there are charges for court, ice, field but no mandatory training... sure we play with potentially dangerous "extreme" sport but the costs associated to the training will keep those persons who have the equipment and wish to participate on a monthly or occasional basis when their budget will allow them too because a

those "back yard" sports don't have. (for situation you are talking about)


a world wide organization, to support them
a world wide, national, and provincial ranking system.
a world wide body for "refereeing" thier sport.
An world wide, rules, and appeal board for discrepancies.


Sure they all have other large sports organization that you can joins and DO, do those things, but you have to pay for them as well..

Due to certain safety and standards aspects, IPSC requires that your join and do the BB course first.. (how many more golfers or mountain bikers are killed each year then any IPSC shooters??, maybe they need appropriate safety lessons before they start thier sports!! )

 

[maxpig]

those "back yard" sports don't have. (for situation you are talking about)


a world wide organization, to support them
a world wide, national, and provincial ranking system.
a world wide body for "refereeing" thier sport.
An world wide, rules, and appeal board for discrepancies.


Sure they all have other large sports organization that you can joins and DO, do those things, but you have to pay for them as well..

Due to certain safety and standards aspects, IPSC requires that your join and do the BB course first.. (how many more golfers or mountain bikers are killed each year then any IPSC shooters??, maybe they need appropriate safety lessons before they start thier sports!! )

You are speaking of membership fees... Yes most, if not all Organized Sports have some sort of fees... we have Membership fees and match fees...

Safety is not the issue. We all understand that our sport requires a higher level of safety.

However it's the Fee ( I know you broke it down for us Quigley) that makes our sport a sport for the the elitists and not so much for everyone else... ei. IDPA, Trap, Skeet( received free tutorial from local sportsman club if I wanted it but not required), Bullseye ( does PPC require a safety course?? and if so what are the fees??) all do not require it and those sports thrive....
I guess what I'm speaking to is not the fact that the BB is required but the cost of the BB for the Potential new IPSC shooter ...

Could they be subsidized from our membership fees... could we have a free year's membership to new members to offset the BB course( since they weren't a member the previous year the "lost" revenues for the first year they participate won't really be a loss)... could we have 2 for 1, or group rates... sure it may cost our coffers a bit but the yearly residuals from membership fees from the new members would offset that and the membership will grow at a greater pace than it is now.

 

[RUPZUK]

I can't believe where this thread is going , I know better to make a post but I just keep getting sucked into dropping my two cents .
To those that are compaining about the cost of the black badge coarse ;
get over it . It's probably the best money you'll spend on this sport .
As for this turning into an elitist sport - wake up . All things in life cost money , some more than others . Don't complain about a minor expenditure that may save my life . Try other sports , how about drag racing or motorcycle racing . Fairly pricy , eh ? Maybe they should eliminate firesuits and helmets to help the poor . I don't think so .
As many have priviously stated you can shoot club matches while supervised in most places with out it , so its not like you can't shoot your gun or slowly build your equipment up to get to the Black Badge .
If your on that tight a budget club matches are probably beyond your/their finacial reach at most times anyway , so why worry about IPSC . I'd be more concerned about controlling my money better and/or inproving my employment position .
If the black badge cost is keeping new shooters out of the sport ( after buying a handgun , magazines , belt , pouches , holster , crates of ammo and or reloading equipment , a car to get to matches , entrance and yearly fees , hotels , gas , dining out and lord help me - lunch ) is that a bad thing ??
This ain't golf , hockey or any other mainstream sport . It's competitive handgun shooting with full power ammo . In todays world our enemies would love us to value cost over safety , or even the perception of it .

 

[relliott]

If the black badge cost is keeping new shooters out of the sport ( after buying a handgun , magazines , belt , pouches , holster , crates of ammo and or reloading equipment , a car to get to matches , entrance and yearly fees , hotels , gas , dining out and lord help me - lunch ) is that a bad thing ??

Not to mention the cost of the expen$ive presents we have to buy our better halfs so we can continue to be away on all of the best summer weekends shooting matches.

 

[Sosa]

Damnit thats what I forgot. No wonder I'm not going to canmore this weekend. Better start now for the provincials

 

[MrFritz]

Some of the suggestions here sound like a federal government wealth redistribution program. That is, A TAX. Don't we have enough of those already?

Do we really need to pay people to join our sport? I know that our membership numbers in Alberta are growing. Is that not the case in other provinces? I know that growth is good and all, but how far do we need to go to let everyone who wants play into the sandbox regardless of their ability to pay?

 

[maxpig]

Some of the suggestions here sound like a federal government wealth redistribution program. That is, A TAX. Don't we have enough of those already?

Do we really need to pay people to join our sport? I know that our membership numbers in Alberta are growing. Is that not the case in other provinces? I know that growth is good and all, but how far do we need to go to let everyone who wants play into the sandbox regardless of their ability to pay?

thanks for making my point... BTW it's not paying people to play it's making it more inviting for people to play... wow everyone here is stuck on the cost of playing and missing the point... oh well life is too short....

 

[MrFritz]

Wouldn't it be even more inviting to new people if we bought them their first year's ammo too? How about if we buy them lunch for all of the matches that they attend within one year of taking their 'free' Black Badge course? That would certainly be more inviting. We could even bump up all current member's annual membership fees by $100 or so and invest in a bunch of guns, and magazines, and holster rigs that any new shooter who wants can use for their first year at no cost as well.

Okay, so I got a little carried away there, but I'll rephrase my question -- do we, the current members, really need to pay out of our pockets to attract and encourage more people to join our sport or are our ranks increasing on their own without such an incentive?

 

[RUPZUK]

I forgot about the spousal gift relliott , In my case it was a complete second set up for her with a Glock G22 . So my costs are about to double .
And I'm looking forward to it !

 

[relliott]

Landscaping in my case. Lots and lots of landscaping. A second gun for her would have been a lot cheaper (sigh).

I forgot about the spousal gift relliott , In my case it was a complete second set up for her with a Glock G22 . So my costs are about to double .
And I'm looking forward to it !

 

[RUPZUK]

As far as recruiting new blood no financial incentive will work . period .
If you want to recruit and retain new members its completely up to the current members . The new shooters have to feel welcome and see that we are a happy bunch with positive attitudes .
Arogance , poor sportsmanship and unaproachable people with negative attitudes drive people away .
In my experiences this holds true , and it doesn't make a difference what your trying to promote .

 

[Quigley]

If you want to recruit and retain new members its completely up to the current members . The new shooters have to feel welcome and see that we are a happy bunch with positive attitudes .

 

[maurice]

thanks for making my point... BTW it's not paying people to play it's making it more inviting for people to play... wow everyone here is stuck on the cost of playing and missing the point... oh well life is too short....

Life it too short,...... time to start doing and less talking. $100-$120 is really not a lot to pay. If you want to change it, you should join and try to get into a position to make the changes you would like. Take the first step and take the course. Take another step and get shooting on a regular basis. Take another step and learn the sport.
**I would like to report that a friend of mine from work JUST purchased a new SP01, mags, holster, CR belt, and Cr mag pouches from Frank at CRAFM. He is a bullseye/PPC shooter. He has intentions of taking the BB. Another guy from work has his pistol and gear and 4000rds of ammo just waiting to take the course.**
Just a week ago, my son who is 14 completed the course. He was worried at first about looking bad in front of other shooters. He had the jam to get over that and got thru the course-safely.

 

[maxpig]

Wouldn't it be even more inviting to new people if we bought them their first year's ammo too? How about if we buy them lunch for all of the matches that they attend within one year of taking their 'free' Black Badge course? That would certainly be more inviting. We could even bump up all current member's annual membership fees by $100 or so and invest in a bunch of guns, and magazines, and holster rigs that any new shooter who wants can use for their first year at no cost as well.

Okay, so I got a little carried away there, but I'll rephrase my question -- do we, the current members, really need to pay out of our pockets to attract and encourage more people to join our sport or are our ranks increasing on their own without such an incentive?

Again there is the Famous IPSC attitude ... instead of having a conversation/ debate we get into childish rants... let's see who i can embarass today... Geee wonder why the retention is so low

 

[maxpig]

Life it too short,...... time to start doing and less talking. $100-$120 is really not a lot to pay. If you want to change it, you should join and try to get into a position to make the changes you would like. Take the first step and take the course. Take another step and get shooting on a regular basis. Take another step and learn the sport.

who is this meant for?? please tell me you weren't referring to me...

I guess it's too much to ask for constructive debate of an issue a member brought up... this is the perfect forum to get consensus without it turning into a flame session... But several posts here only re-enforces people's ( you know them the haters) perception of IPSC participants as being arrogant and rude.... tell me why my ideas wouldn't help our sport.. ie too costly not feasable... just not needed... rather than saying golf costs more... why should we pay out of our pockets to supplement new shooters... which all are valid if I said IPSC is too expensive to play... what I'm saying is Why should the safety training be as expensive as it is when that creates a perceivable barrier to new comers especially when they have everything they need but the BB.... we are already in the sport and we already paid for the BB... so we naturally would feel everyone should pay... well if we want greater numbers in this sport in Canada then we should lower barriers...

 

[SUPERMAG]

Perhaps

perhaps we need to look at it in a different light ???
$160 dollars = less than $14 per month!!!!!
Cost most of us more than that in primers per month let alone other things.

I personally spend way more than that each year introducing new people to the art of pistol shooting.

Instructors shouldn't have to give up 2 1/2 days and travel eat sometimes stay in a hotel for free, think what it costs us to do that and they also have to appease someone at home//??

We could do more by being more friendly to new shooters and make them feel welcome at the matches and practices


Supermag

 

[maxpig]

perhaps we need to look at it in a different light ???
$160 dollars = less than $14 per month!!!!!
Cost most of us more than that in primers per month let alone other things.

I personally spend way more than that each year introducing new people to the art of pistol shooting.

Instructors shouldn't have to give up 2 1/2 days and travel eat sometimes stay in a hotel for free, think what it costs us to do that and they also have to appease someone at home//??

We could do more by being more friendly to new shooters and make them feel welcome at the matches and practices


Supermag

Ur right instructors need to get paid.... IPSC should get re-reimbursed for training material.... I suggested waiving the first year's fee as a means to reduce the cost...