price to play IPSC

So... How about offering the BB coure with out IPSC mebership. That would save a few dollars, and for those not interested in IPSC or not sure about it joining could be a later option.

Maybe we could have a challenge system for the BB and the course etc?

Another recourse would be to split BB into IPSC and non IPSC components. Teach movement safety holster use etc, as related to handgun sports in general, and for those interested in IPSC offer a second day classroom and shooting specifically for IPSC.

This is a further reach and just suggesting it will bring something I am sure but I'm just throwing it out there.

Out of curiosity I know the BB is only required in Canada but which agency is making it a requirement?
 
Quigley said:
Thats not enirely true...

In your scenario (wave the first year membership)...Ontario would still be responsible for the $30.00 fee to IPSC Canada...that money has to come from somewhere
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Thanks for pointing that out... well I used IPSC Ontario as an example of break down of fees.... obviously this would be Canada wide.... have IPSC Canada waive the Membership fees for 1st year would reduce the cost in all Canadian sections... or at least it should


I think if we as a IPSC Region decide to waive the first year membership it will be a great marketing tool... as it is now 160.00 (Ontario) that includes the BB and first year's membership or 100.00 for BB and your membership for the first year is free. I think the latter sounds better and really doesn't cost much unless Quigley or someone else can point out something I'm not aware of. Perhaps fees to IPSC world...
 
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Sosa said:
So... How about offering the BB coure with out IPSC mebership. That would save a few dollars, and for those not interested in IPSC or not sure about it joining could be a later option.

Maybe we could have a challenge system for the BB and the course etc?

Another recourse would be to split BB into IPSC and non IPSC components. Teach movement safety holster use etc, as related to handgun sports in general, and for those interested in IPSC offer a second day classroom and shooting specifically for IPSC.

This is a further reach and just suggesting it will bring something I am sure but I'm just throwing it out there.

Out of curiosity I know the BB is only required in Canada but which agency is making it a requirement?
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good ideas... whether or not they'll be implemented depends on all of us to ask During next IPSC Canada AGM. oh it's IPSC Canada that requires it as far as I know...
 
Sosa said:
So... How about offering the BB coure with out IPSC mebership. That would save a few dollars, and for those not interested in IPSC or not sure about it joining could be a later option.

Maybe we could have a challenge system for the BB and the course etc?

Another recourse would be to split BB into IPSC and non IPSC components. Teach movement safety holster use etc, as related to handgun sports in general, and for those interested in IPSC offer a second day classroom and shooting specifically for IPSC.

This is a further reach and just suggesting it will bring something I am sure but I'm just throwing it out there.

Out of curiosity I know the BB is only required in Canada but which agency is making it a requirement?
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There are no non IPSC components of the Black Badge. It is not intended to teach people how to shoot...it's intended to teach people how to shoot IPSC.

If people are interested in a Holster Certifiction course, CSSA has a good one...or any of the xDPA's.

Honestly, we have enough of a challenge training our own students (never seems to be enough courses) There would be little time or interest in training people that do not intend to join the orgnization.

I'm not trying to be blunt...but it's pretty simple...you want in...or you don't. If there are components or aspects of IPSC that you don't like (assumng you have good information)....then don't join or you'll just end up quitting.

There are plenty of other options. Find something you like... As long as your putting lead down range (safely) then it's good our the entire shooting community. IPSC never claimed to be the only option...or even the best one.

If you are interetsed in IPSC...there are plenty of people around to help you out and answer your questions. Please don't hesitate to ask.

Cheers
 
maxpig said:
Thanks for pointing that out... well I used IPSC Ontario as an example of break down of fees.... obviously this would be Canada wide.... have IPSC Canada waive the Membership fees for 1st year would reduce the cost in all Canadian sections... or at least it should


I think if we as a IPSC Region decide to waive the first year membership it will be a great marketing tool... as it is now 160.00 (Ontario) that includes the BB and first year's membership or 100.00 for BB and your membership for the first year is free. I think the latter sounds better and really doesn't cost much unless Quigley or someone else can point out something I'm not aware of. Perhaps fees to IPSC world...
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Well since you brought up marketing :cool:

What would yield better results...dropping the $60 first year fee to attract new shooters (some of which may only have a casual interest) or spend some of that money to actually market the sport?

If we want to grow (faster than we are now) cutting costs is not the way to go. I honestly don't think it would make a difference.

Doing more to market to new students...and working harder to keep the ones we have would be easier...and probably more effective.
 
Now we have made a quantum shift in the right direction. We are within our shooting sports are our own worst enemy. In order to market our sport it has to become mainstream. come out of the closet as it were.

Out here we post our winners names. We invite the press to our shoots. They can take pictures of us shooting. Hell I doubt there are many homes in Terrace that don't have a gun in the closet so we are hardly inviting home breakins.

Suggested that on this forum and all I got was a bunch of excuses involving the Privacy Act. Well folks put a waiver on your application to your shoot. Shoot in the IPSC Nationals and your name will be posted with your scores in the local newspaper just like any other sport. What in God's name have we to hide?

IPSC HQ posts all the Canadian contestants scores on their site that is open to the public but IPSC Canada won't post the same names on their public assesable section of their forum.

We haven't got there yet but running ads in the local newspaper advertising IPSC/IDPA matches isn't all bad. IPSC/IDPA might be the two best kept secrets on the Canadian sporting scene and we wonder why our sport has trouble growing.

Take Care

Bob
 
The marketing is definatly a good idea. Over the hills here I've seen CAS get spreads in the papers and all sorts of attention just because they dress funny:). It would be nice if we could get more media attention to this sport without the OMG there shooting paper that kind of resembles something that makes me feel uneasy. Might be worth a try at a provincial or even a level two qualifier someday. What's the protocall if you want to bring a reporter type to the match?
 
maxpig said:
He always knows what topic to start and then run from...
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not running, just recovering from my sisters wedding the other night, I had typed out a good reply on thursday night but when i went to post it it got deleted and I didn't feel like doing it again.
Back on topic, The Black Bage course is just to cover IPSC Canada's ass in case of a serious accident, which is a good thing. The skills covered in the course can be picked up from a dvd from Jarrett, Barnhart, or Burkett for a fraction of the cost. Passing the Black Badge course does not automaticly make you a safe shooter, I'm sure I'm not the only who has questioned how the hell someone passed the course. Has Leatham or Jarrett taken a Black Badge course? How do we know they are safe?
Isn't this a volunteer sport? I'm all for covering travel cost but no person or section should be making a profit of the course, do match directors get a cut of the match fees? The course should cost the first years membership and a set instuctor fee whihc will cover their expenses. Targets and patches should eb covered by the host club and possibly range time since they will make it back in the match fees from the new shooters. If we can come up with a less drawn out instructor traing process then we could increase the instrutor pool, which could cut down on instructors having to drive for hours to teach a class. With more instructors out there it would be that much of a waste to do 2 or 3 person classes. The amount of people that stick around after the course is low and we need to address it but we should also look at increasing the amount of people taking the course. For all of you who think that ranges will turn into the wild west if the BB course was stopped have a look at the USPSA.
My main issue isn't with the course, it's not going to change anythime soon, but where the money that we all put into the sport goes and for what reason, keep in mind that a portion of your sections membership fees go to IPSC Canada then a portion of that goes to IPSC world. That's a good chuck of funds floating around, and I'm sure there are instances all over the world at all levels where it's not being spent efficiently, ie silver teams at the Nats.
Could we cut our operating cost by combining all the seprate provincial efforts into one national office?
 
Madness said:
not running, just recovering from my sisters wedding the other night, I had typed out a good reply on thursday night but when i went to post it it got deleted and I didn't feel like doing it again.
Back on topic, The Black Bage course is just to cover IPSC Canada's ass in case of a serious accident, which is a good thing. The skills covered in the course can be picked up from a dvd from Jarrett, Barnhart, or Burkett for a fraction of the cost. Passing the Black Badge course does not automaticly make you a safe shooter, I'm sure I'm not the only who has questioned how the hell someone passed the course. Has Leatham or Jarrett taken a Black Badge course? How do we know they are safe?
Isn't this a volunteer sport? I'm all for covering travel cost but no person or section should be making a profit of the course, do match directors get a cut of the match fees? The course should cost the first years membership and a set instuctor fee whihc will cover their expenses. Targets and patches should eb covered by the host club and possibly range time since they will make it back in the match fees from the new shooters. If we can come up with a less drawn out instructor traing process then we could increase the instrutor pool, which could cut down on instructors having to drive for hours to teach a class. With more instructors out there it would be that much of a waste to do 2 or 3 person classes. The amount of people that stick around after the course is low and we need to address it but we should also look at increasing the amount of people taking the course. For all of you who think that ranges will turn into the wild west if the BB course was stopped have a look at the USPSA.
My main issue isn't with the course, it's not going to change anythime soon, but where the money that we all put into the sport goes and for what reason, keep in mind that a portion of your sections membership fees go to IPSC Canada then a portion of that goes to IPSC world. That's a good chuck of funds floating around, and I'm sure there are instances all over the world at all levels where it's not being spent efficiently, ie silver teams at the Nats.
Could we cut our operating cost by combining all the seprate provincial efforts into one national office?
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The election starts every November Mike ;) :cool: :p
 
It's all about marketing .
You can sell ice cubes to eskimo's IF they are conditioned to want them .
Positive press is a good start , recently a small contingent or Rupert shooters traveled to Prince George For the IPSC qualifier . Upon returning the local paper did a half page article - all positive .
If we can get that here , theres no reason why the sports pages in your area's can't . Get to know your sports reporter , invite them out . If they don't show up track them down and give them the stats - educate them on the reality of our sport .
Also , on the concept of cutting and slashing the IPSC entrance costs . Exactly were would the money come from ? Last I checked at the end of the year we ( IPSC ) just break even pretty much , so who's going to make up the short fall ??
 
maxpig said:
Hope you had fun... good ideas... I second Quigley's nomination....
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Well that was actually a challenge...not a nomination ;)

Edit...that didn't read right...

The message, whick I seem unable to convey...if you want to criticise...you better have solutions...and you won't change anything if you don't get involved...

While we're on the subject of ideas and contributions...you don't have to be on the board to help out...we're always looking for help.
 
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maxpig said:
Again there is the Famous IPSC attitude ... instead of having a conversation/ debate we get into childish rants... let's see who i can embarass today... Geee wonder why the retention is so low
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I regret that you took my comments as a personal attack. With all due respect, I asked twice whether IPSC Canada membership was growing or not. Neither you or anybody else in this thread has answered that question.

(I indicated in the post that you quoted that my initial comments were over the top -- that was intended to highlight the facetious nature of them and that they were not intended to be taken seriously.)

So once again I ask politely, what is the current growth rate of IPSC in Canada (and if appropriate, the individual sections)? I would like to know so that I can reasonably assess the need to change the status quo regarding fees for Black Badge courses. If we are already bringing in plenty of new members then I don't see a need to change. If the sport is in decline, then your ideas have some merit. For the record, the sport is not in decline here in Alberta.
 
MrFritz said:
I regret that you took my comments as a personal attack. With all due respect, I asked twice whether IPSC Canada membership was growing or not. Neither you or anybody else in this thread has answered that question.

(I indicated in the post that you quoted that my initial comments were over the top -- that was intended to highlight the facetious nature of them and that they were not intended to be taken seriously.)

So once again I ask politely, what is the current growth rate of IPSC in Canada (and if appropriate, the individual sections)? I would like to know so that I can reasonably assess the need to change the status quo regarding fees for Black Badge courses. If we are already bringing in plenty of new members then I don't see a need to change. If the sport is in decline, then your ideas have some merit. For the record, the sport is not in decline here in Alberta.
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Ontario - We ended last year at over 1,000. That would be the highest since the infamous CAPSA / OOPSIE split (I know that's not the proper acronym...but it does seem fitting)

It is not an alltime high (somewhere around 1200) but that number was somewhat inflated. It was right after the 10 round mag limit came in and there was speculation that IPSC members would be exempt...so quite a few people joined that didn't activly participate.

...but...over all for the last several years our numbers are growing steadily. We still have a high attrition rate...but that's a seperate challenge
 
Quigley said:
Well that was actually a challenge...not a nomination ;)

Edit...that didn't read right...

The message, wick I seem unable to convey...if you want to criticise...you better have solutions...and you won't change anything if you don't get involved...

While we're on the subject of ideas and contributions...you don't have to be on the board to help out...we're always looking for help.
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hence why debate is good... healthy debate... Madness' suggestions/solutions may not be your cup of tea... it may be for some... talk about the merit of it and keep an open mind... other than recently changing the classification system in Ontario I really haven't seen an open mind about any idea... not a good idea but not feasible... good idea but too expensive... ooops sorry you did acknowledge my marketing idea (but didn't expand on how to achieve that what method you would promote IPSC in Canada).. so I stand corrected on that... but overall it seems any idea for change is met with negative response if any... it seems on this forum as of late it's always ur on crack or no that won't work without an explaination (not necessarily you but in general so take that as a personal jab.) or you can always take up golf or NASCAR, IDPA, Bullseye, PPC...etc...

members will stop throwing out ideas (their form of helping and getting involved) and just brood in silence... and since you're on here daily it's a perfect avenue for you to do so in a public forum and as long as it's constructive dialog it should help people will see that, (at least in your case) IPSC Ontario is at least listening... it doesn't have to be broken to improve on something...

edit : there was an ideas/ suggestion to Stormbringer about range help at a match... charge more for admission if you don't want to work... then he can hire local high school kids with that cash to offset lack of help... good idea I hope he does it if for no other reason as a test case to see if that actually worked out and could be a model for future Level II or higher matches in Canada

and I still think it was a nomination:p
 
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maxpig said:
... and since you're on here daily it's a perfect avenue for you to do so in a public forum and as long as it's constructive dialog it should help people will see that, (at least in your case) IPSC Ontario is at least listening... it doesn't have to be broken to improve on something...
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I have no issues with answering questions on this forum or using it to gather information...but it has to end there. This is not the place for official anouncements or discussions..

Why not ? The members that regularily post here represent a very small percentage of our overall membership...and we have to listen to everyone.

That being said...I have always been a supporter of this forum...
 
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