Prices on the rise?
- Thread starter sailorrcn
- Start date
I think he meant Polytech but typed Polytechnic, a school where an unfortunate shooting happened many years ago. It was at the heart of the whole long-gun registry.
Alleged reason, luckily for them people are too stupid to read coroners reports and gun control lobby didn't feel the need to mention that the main issue with polytechnique was the lack of any response by the police. He had already decided to stop shooting others and to shoot himself before the Police got their heads out of their arses. (Not dissing law enforcement, just stating the real issue of the time).
I have a few chinese rifles and they are not POS. Not as polished as the american made turds maybe, but not that bad. Everything is high now, hell the importers are all making atleast 100% profit off of their toys, and with shipping increases that get transfered to us , and the "Want" that we gun owners have for cool new toys, we get to pay the idiot premium. Like the morons throwing premium gasoline in their Toyota's.
PPCLIGullyPlatoon
Regular
SHORT TITLE: "WHY HAS THE COST OF FIREARM "XYZ" FROM WHEREEVERLAND RISEN 40%+ SINCE FALL?"
Disclosure: I am not an authority on world geoeconomy. I simply looked for a reasonable explanation for price escalations on certain imported firearms. I do not wish to insult anyone having expert knowledge in this area, and I welcome any feedback where my inferences are fundamentally incorrect.
Out of a passion for this issue (and in some respect, just for S's & G's), I did a little inquiring with the recent price increases for firearms manufactured and/or imported from China. I don't pretend to know everything about every single step in the importation process and costs involved, nor international trade, but, I am employed by a firm who's owners take their yearly "working vacation" trip to China, contracting their manufacturers and arranging for the logistics of importing into Canada, and I do have a few friends who do have some experience with international trade.
Now then: Trade Between Countries Defines Currency Value (not the other way around----). Canadians see this daily; One of the largest trading partners with Canada is the USA. When the value of our Dollar decreases, it costs more to cross-boarder shop, but it is also a sign of "improving economy" (Canada sells more "stuff" internationally, because trade partners are able to purchase more "stuff" at lesser cost. As a result, more gross Dollars come into the economy. The process begins with Canada having more "stuff" than we know what to do with!).
That being said, just a couple of facts I've found: 1) The Canadian Dollar has decreased in value over the past year - this is true, and depending on who you speak to, it's about a 10% decrease when compared to trade with the United States. In fairness, the US Dollar is favoured as the preferred negotiating instrument worldwide. 2) The Chinese "Yuan," has (like the Canadian Dollar) fluctuated over the past year. The "direct trade value" between Canada and China (regardless of whether conversion to the USD occurred or not) has fluctuated somewhat wildly over the past year, since the value of the Chinese Yuan has also fluctuated with the USD (independently). The "mean" purchasing power of the Canadian Dollar in the Chinese market has been declining, but not at dramatically as expected (a maximum loss of about 14%). It would be reasonable to realize a 14% increase in base purchase price, comparing a year ago to today. I should mention that the Chinese Yuan is actually trending downward, while the Canadian Dollar is relatively stable.
"Niche" market supply & demand doesn't influence international trade because of the relatively small volume (yes, I am afraid the international purchase of recreational firearms would unlikely fulfill the monetary needs of even the smallest country!). The purchasing power ratio between the two countries determines "price" for items like these. The exception would be confounding factors related to manufacturing and/or raw materials. Asian steel has been on a minor decline for the last 2 years. To my knowledge (from individuals I work with involved directly in importation logistics), seaway container logistics costs have not appreciably changed, and for the most part, exported goods from Asia are generally negotiated "FOB" ("Freight On Board" - supplier/manufacturer provides transportation & logistics to the nearest shipping port as part of the contract value). Unless the manufacturers/suppliers in China perceive some opportunity to demand a higher price for their firearms (such as a repeal on the US ban to import Chinese manufactured firearms - which is a poor example, since US demand would more likely stabilize prices: More demand = more income, even at a lesser amount per unit).
What's left to examine regarding price point from Chinese manufacturer to delivery to customer in Canada? Not much - 14% increase is reasonable, and I don't think any customer would balk at a $14 per $100 increase. Of the importers I've been employed in the past, the difference between "purchase cost," "landed cost," "supplier catalogue price," and "customer price" varies, but, in general terms, "purchase cost" X 3-4 = "customer price" (the 3-4 factor is determined by all of the issues surrounding the handling of the item: Storage, man/hours for shipping & receiving, etc.). Since a 14% increase would be anticipated; it's not unreasonable to suggest that the balance of the increase is based on another factor (or factors) that rely on multiplication factors and not "profit-per-unit."
In one instance recently, I had heard of a supplier receiving a shipment of firearms, and sold the ENTIRE shipment in under 24 hours at a price point that had been maintained for approximately a year (true? Not true? I am not sure; just what I heard through the grapevine). Meanwhile, another supplier received the same firearm; I've been informed that stocks of the firearm remains available - though, at a substantially higher price. Whether this is a "market test" or not, I can't comment. It's just common sense to maximize profit on a high-demand item, especially in low-demand situations. The good news? Demand dictates the market price; at some point the reality of, "keeping it on the shelves is costing more than the profit earned."
It will be interesting to see what happens to the domestic price of SKS-type rifles over the next while! According to Vocative Internet Magazine, the Ukraine/Crimea issue may cause some concern:
"Legitimate" gun sales have increased, but, if internet gun forums in Ukraine are accurate, "75% (of advertisements) are "shotguns and sniper rifles (26% of all guns listed (are) MP-27 hunting rifles): 19% (are) pistols and handguns (most popular is the Stalker); 6% (are) assault rifles (most popular (is) the Saiga-12 and 410." (http://www.vocativ.com/world/russia/ukrainians-want-arm-teeth/).
Though none of the firearms listed in the article are SKS-type rifles, there is no explanation for why the availability of 7.62X39 ammunition is in short supply --- someone must own the rifles already!! While there's some credibility issues surrounding the idea that, as a result of the mass arming of Ukrainians and Crimeans with Russian-manufactured SKS-type rifles, the available supply for importation will be depleted, unless local proprietors are planning to export what stock they have back to Ukraine/Crimea, the local SKS supply is not going to change. I would imagine that the immediate importation of SKS rifles may be transiently affected until stability in the Ukraine/Crimea region is achieved (if the story about supply of Russian SKS is to be believed). I would be at a loss to explain how this would affect the Chinese SKS supply. Just a thought: The more rare an item is perceived to be, the higher the demand, the higher the commanding price.
What's the summary and moral of this lengthy story? Simple, really - I have no issues with companies seeking a profit for the goods/services they sell. I become concerned when there is profit made under the guise of questionable conditions which raise suspicion or simply, don't make sense. Gun ownership in this country is tough enough already with seemingly ever-changing rules and regulations, without basis or justification; gun ownership doesn't require MORE control; it requires BETTER control (which should be provided by law under consult of the nations gun owners), and a level of trust that is shared between all those involved.
Disclosure: I am not an authority on world geoeconomy. I simply looked for a reasonable explanation for price escalations on certain imported firearms. I do not wish to insult anyone having expert knowledge in this area, and I welcome any feedback where my inferences are fundamentally incorrect.
Out of a passion for this issue (and in some respect, just for S's & G's), I did a little inquiring with the recent price increases for firearms manufactured and/or imported from China. I don't pretend to know everything about every single step in the importation process and costs involved, nor international trade, but, I am employed by a firm who's owners take their yearly "working vacation" trip to China, contracting their manufacturers and arranging for the logistics of importing into Canada, and I do have a few friends who do have some experience with international trade.
Now then: Trade Between Countries Defines Currency Value (not the other way around----). Canadians see this daily; One of the largest trading partners with Canada is the USA. When the value of our Dollar decreases, it costs more to cross-boarder shop, but it is also a sign of "improving economy" (Canada sells more "stuff" internationally, because trade partners are able to purchase more "stuff" at lesser cost. As a result, more gross Dollars come into the economy. The process begins with Canada having more "stuff" than we know what to do with!).
That being said, just a couple of facts I've found: 1) The Canadian Dollar has decreased in value over the past year - this is true, and depending on who you speak to, it's about a 10% decrease when compared to trade with the United States. In fairness, the US Dollar is favoured as the preferred negotiating instrument worldwide. 2) The Chinese "Yuan," has (like the Canadian Dollar) fluctuated over the past year. The "direct trade value" between Canada and China (regardless of whether conversion to the USD occurred or not) has fluctuated somewhat wildly over the past year, since the value of the Chinese Yuan has also fluctuated with the USD (independently). The "mean" purchasing power of the Canadian Dollar in the Chinese market has been declining, but not at dramatically as expected (a maximum loss of about 14%). It would be reasonable to realize a 14% increase in base purchase price, comparing a year ago to today. I should mention that the Chinese Yuan is actually trending downward, while the Canadian Dollar is relatively stable.
"Niche" market supply & demand doesn't influence international trade because of the relatively small volume (yes, I am afraid the international purchase of recreational firearms would unlikely fulfill the monetary needs of even the smallest country!). The purchasing power ratio between the two countries determines "price" for items like these. The exception would be confounding factors related to manufacturing and/or raw materials. Asian steel has been on a minor decline for the last 2 years. To my knowledge (from individuals I work with involved directly in importation logistics), seaway container logistics costs have not appreciably changed, and for the most part, exported goods from Asia are generally negotiated "FOB" ("Freight On Board" - supplier/manufacturer provides transportation & logistics to the nearest shipping port as part of the contract value). Unless the manufacturers/suppliers in China perceive some opportunity to demand a higher price for their firearms (such as a repeal on the US ban to import Chinese manufactured firearms - which is a poor example, since US demand would more likely stabilize prices: More demand = more income, even at a lesser amount per unit).
What's left to examine regarding price point from Chinese manufacturer to delivery to customer in Canada? Not much - 14% increase is reasonable, and I don't think any customer would balk at a $14 per $100 increase. Of the importers I've been employed in the past, the difference between "purchase cost," "landed cost," "supplier catalogue price," and "customer price" varies, but, in general terms, "purchase cost" X 3-4 = "customer price" (the 3-4 factor is determined by all of the issues surrounding the handling of the item: Storage, man/hours for shipping & receiving, etc.). Since a 14% increase would be anticipated; it's not unreasonable to suggest that the balance of the increase is based on another factor (or factors) that rely on multiplication factors and not "profit-per-unit."
In one instance recently, I had heard of a supplier receiving a shipment of firearms, and sold the ENTIRE shipment in under 24 hours at a price point that had been maintained for approximately a year (true? Not true? I am not sure; just what I heard through the grapevine). Meanwhile, another supplier received the same firearm; I've been informed that stocks of the firearm remains available - though, at a substantially higher price. Whether this is a "market test" or not, I can't comment. It's just common sense to maximize profit on a high-demand item, especially in low-demand situations. The good news? Demand dictates the market price; at some point the reality of, "keeping it on the shelves is costing more than the profit earned."
It will be interesting to see what happens to the domestic price of SKS-type rifles over the next while! According to Vocative Internet Magazine, the Ukraine/Crimea issue may cause some concern:
"Legitimate" gun sales have increased, but, if internet gun forums in Ukraine are accurate, "75% (of advertisements) are "shotguns and sniper rifles (26% of all guns listed (are) MP-27 hunting rifles): 19% (are) pistols and handguns (most popular is the Stalker); 6% (are) assault rifles (most popular (is) the Saiga-12 and 410." (http://www.vocativ.com/world/russia/ukrainians-want-arm-teeth/).
Though none of the firearms listed in the article are SKS-type rifles, there is no explanation for why the availability of 7.62X39 ammunition is in short supply --- someone must own the rifles already!! While there's some credibility issues surrounding the idea that, as a result of the mass arming of Ukrainians and Crimeans with Russian-manufactured SKS-type rifles, the available supply for importation will be depleted, unless local proprietors are planning to export what stock they have back to Ukraine/Crimea, the local SKS supply is not going to change. I would imagine that the immediate importation of SKS rifles may be transiently affected until stability in the Ukraine/Crimea region is achieved (if the story about supply of Russian SKS is to be believed). I would be at a loss to explain how this would affect the Chinese SKS supply. Just a thought: The more rare an item is perceived to be, the higher the demand, the higher the commanding price.
What's the summary and moral of this lengthy story? Simple, really - I have no issues with companies seeking a profit for the goods/services they sell. I become concerned when there is profit made under the guise of questionable conditions which raise suspicion or simply, don't make sense. Gun ownership in this country is tough enough already with seemingly ever-changing rules and regulations, without basis or justification; gun ownership doesn't require MORE control; it requires BETTER control (which should be provided by law under consult of the nations gun owners), and a level of trust that is shared between all those involved.
Still abetter bargain that a Springfield P.O.S. M1A
I would say it to, if it was the case but actually my SA NM M1A is one of the most well built rifle as it is a shooter, they are expensive very true, but they are more than candy.... JP.
Mauser GDog
CGN frequent flyer
I can't think of anything that the cost of is going down, unless it's something that has failed in it's marketplace. Can you?
The cost of everything always goes up...sometimes slowly and sometimes in leaps and bounds.
On top of that, firearms are susceptible to politics, rumor and consumer panic arguably more than any other product/commodity.
The cost of everything always goes up...sometimes slowly and sometimes in leaps and bounds.
On top of that, firearms are susceptible to politics, rumor and consumer panic arguably more than any other product/commodity.
You mean people are asking more than the price of new? Its always been that way on the EE. Cheaper to buy new than to buy someone's used rifle. That's why they all sit and get bumped 50 times before someone talks some sense into the owner and they let it go for a reasonable price.
I'm not seeing what your seeing at all. Take a look at the nork 1911 at Canada ammo...$299 is up ????? I would say Way down. And as far as the EE goes..Im not seeing an increase there either ...some nork 45"s are going as low as $250.shipped, witch makes the gun $235. At frontier you can buy the latest 1911 Commander with Fiber Optic sights for $339. I would say 1911"s are at an all time low.
Still abetter bargain that a Springfield P.O.S. M1A
Oh, is that so? Please enlighten me sir, as to how you came to that conclusion.
