Pathfinder
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Northeast Ontario
I had the same craters with a recently made M-700 . I dont' have them on older 700's.
Primer pressure signs
- Thread starter yukon280
- Start date
Great info folks, thanks.
And you guys who picked it as a Rem are dead on. Rem 700 LSS in .280R.
Wouldn't the cratering be an indication of a stiffer spring? Increased impact velocity resulting in displacement of material?
Any other powders that could be recomened besides the RL series for this cartridge that might lower the pressures?
I was just mulling this over, but one of the reasons I got into reloading, besides the economics of it, is that I had read that the .280 was one of the rounds that is a real "handloaders" cartridge, in that the factory loads had to be loaded lighter to take into account all the non bolt action rifles around, and that by hand loading for a bolt action, you could increase it performance. Now having gotten into it, it seems its pretty hard to beat the performance of the premium factory ammo.
Am I off base on this observation? Obviously, its still cheaper to load yourself, and for my .350RM, its pretty much the only way to go.
And you guys who picked it as a Rem are dead on. Rem 700 LSS in .280R.
Wouldn't the cratering be an indication of a stiffer spring? Increased impact velocity resulting in displacement of material?
Any other powders that could be recomened besides the RL series for this cartridge that might lower the pressures?
I was just mulling this over, but one of the reasons I got into reloading, besides the economics of it, is that I had read that the .280 was one of the rounds that is a real "handloaders" cartridge, in that the factory loads had to be loaded lighter to take into account all the non bolt action rifles around, and that by hand loading for a bolt action, you could increase it performance. Now having gotten into it, it seems its pretty hard to beat the performance of the premium factory ammo.
Am I off base on this observation? Obviously, its still cheaper to load yourself, and for my .350RM, its pretty much the only way to go.
Last edited:
TargetNorth
Regular
- Location
- Southern Alberta
I shoot .243 right now, and my primers are always a little flat. I judge pressure by chronograph mostly, and I'm >100fps UNDER the max load listed.
I just loaded 50 for my coworkers .308 and shot them with him, and his primers were not flat at all. His velocities were also good.
As long as you are under the max FPS listed in the reloading manual when testing with your chrono, you should be fine right?
I just loaded 50 for my coworkers .308 and shot them with him, and his primers were not flat at all. His velocities were also good.
As long as you are under the max FPS listed in the reloading manual when testing with your chrono, you should be fine right?
Yukon, with this quote you hit the nail on the head, plumb centre!
"Now having gotten into it, it seems its pretty hard to beat the performance of the premium factory ammo.
Am I off base on this observation? Obviously, its still cheaper to load yourself, and for my .350RM, its pretty much the only way to go."
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Everybody that buys a press and dies thinks he can make better ammunition than the factories can. This is hogwash. Factory ammunition, all made with new components with very expensive, precise equipment, and constant checking, is good, accurate ammunition.
Now, I am ready for it, the great blast that will tell me they taylor their home built ammo to suit what their rifle "likes." This isn't all hogwash, only about 90% hogwash!
The facts are that a well bedded and tuned rifle will shoot any ammunition to the capabilities of the rifle involved. Col. Townsend Whelan made the famous statement, "Only accurate rifles are interesting." In all of his writings about shooting and accuracy, did he ever write anything about adjusting your ammuntion to what your rifle likes? Certainly not that I ever saw. Nor did any of the other writers of that famous era of shooting, ever write, that I ever read, anything about tayloring the ammunition to your rifle.
Warren Page, of benchrest fame, Jack O'Connor of hunting fame and Elmer Keith, of just fame, all were of the "Load them to the hilt," types.
Of course, better bullets would make better groups and some rifles will shoot a certain weight bullet better than other weights. Most 30-06 rifles have a 1 in 10" twist and that may be high for the lighter weight bullets. A good 30-06 barrel on a well tuned bolt action rifle, may shoot slightly different poi with different weight bullets, but all weights should shoot a good group, with the 200 and 220 maybe being best of all.
And to the OP, I don't think you have to worry about high pressure with any of the loads shot in the brass you have pictures of. Please listen to what many have told you, and don't equate the cratering with high pressure.
"Now having gotten into it, it seems its pretty hard to beat the performance of the premium factory ammo.
Am I off base on this observation? Obviously, its still cheaper to load yourself, and for my .350RM, its pretty much the only way to go."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Everybody that buys a press and dies thinks he can make better ammunition than the factories can. This is hogwash. Factory ammunition, all made with new components with very expensive, precise equipment, and constant checking, is good, accurate ammunition.
Now, I am ready for it, the great blast that will tell me they taylor their home built ammo to suit what their rifle "likes." This isn't all hogwash, only about 90% hogwash!
The facts are that a well bedded and tuned rifle will shoot any ammunition to the capabilities of the rifle involved. Col. Townsend Whelan made the famous statement, "Only accurate rifles are interesting." In all of his writings about shooting and accuracy, did he ever write anything about adjusting your ammuntion to what your rifle likes? Certainly not that I ever saw. Nor did any of the other writers of that famous era of shooting, ever write, that I ever read, anything about tayloring the ammunition to your rifle.
Warren Page, of benchrest fame, Jack O'Connor of hunting fame and Elmer Keith, of just fame, all were of the "Load them to the hilt," types.
Of course, better bullets would make better groups and some rifles will shoot a certain weight bullet better than other weights. Most 30-06 rifles have a 1 in 10" twist and that may be high for the lighter weight bullets. A good 30-06 barrel on a well tuned bolt action rifle, may shoot slightly different poi with different weight bullets, but all weights should shoot a good group, with the 200 and 220 maybe being best of all.
And to the OP, I don't think you have to worry about high pressure with any of the loads shot in the brass you have pictures of. Please listen to what many have told you, and don't equate the cratering with high pressure.
I should have added - "or so I am told". Not a gunsmith, but I have been dealing with the same types of primer issues.
Would Remington replace a weak spring under warranty or is that something I would need to ask and pay to have done. My gun has just been sent away for warranty repair work (i.e., a small ridge around the primer ejector hole that appears to be causing premature ejector marks on my brass).
As a follow up, I went up to the range with a Chrony to get some solid data.
All 160 gr Accubonds.
So:
52 gr Rl-19-~2590 FPS @ 10'
53 gr Rl-19-~2624 FPS @ 10'
53 gr Rl-22-~2523 FPS @ 10'
Federal TBT 160 gr 2738 vs 2800 published.
Seems to me that all the above loads are pretty light, and that I am not getting excess pressure signs.
All 160 gr Accubonds.
So:
52 gr Rl-19-~2590 FPS @ 10'
53 gr Rl-19-~2624 FPS @ 10'
53 gr Rl-22-~2523 FPS @ 10'
Federal TBT 160 gr 2738 vs 2800 published.
Seems to me that all the above loads are pretty light, and that I am not getting excess pressure signs.
Certainly some operations can increase the accuracy of handloaded ammunition - neck sizing only, custom trim-to lengths, custom seating depths, binning brass by thickness and the like. These are operations a factory cannot perform for you because they would be specific for your rifle and/or require more attention to detail than a factory is willing to invest (excepting in the case of factory match quality ammo).
In the case of the 280Rem mentioned, the OP mentions he is increasing the OAL. This is also increasing the case capacity and so it should be possible to beat a factory load for speed as well at close to the same pressures.
that factory load measured surprisingly bang-on, since the factory velocity is rated with a 24" barrel. Your chronograph results reinforce the point that primer appearance is not a good way to judge 60,000 psi or not going off three inches from your face.
I would run the RL22 loads up in pairs over the chronograph to 2800 fps or so, then test for accuracy at that level (probably around 58-59 grains).
Finally shoot a group of 3-5 cases with that load a few times, and if you are accurate and primers stay tight after at least 3 firings in the same case, you're done.
I have no idea. for the $5 for a spring I'd just ask them to change it.
As far as an oversized hole or weak spring causing the cratered primers, just rotate the firing pin assembly so the pin drops and look at the fit. There should be clearance, but no space around the firing pin. If the pin fits fairly tightly, then a weak spring is likely your problem.
Mount Sweetness
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Ontario
Regarding H4831's comments:
I agree that premium factory is of great quality...but I don't really want to spend the money for it. I actually look for bargain factory ammo that performs like premium...for example...I've found 50gr Prvi Partizan in .222rem performs just about perfect.
Consistent velocity is one thing, terminal performance is another, but more important in the cartridge selection game for me is repeatable accuracy....and this is a handloaders bread and butter...accuracy.
I agree that premium factory is of great quality...but I don't really want to spend the money for it. I actually look for bargain factory ammo that performs like premium...for example...I've found 50gr Prvi Partizan in .222rem performs just about perfect.
Consistent velocity is one thing, terminal performance is another, but more important in the cartridge selection game for me is repeatable accuracy....and this is a handloaders bread and butter...accuracy.
