Primers not igniting

smilloy said:
Freedomintheskies,
Yes it is possible that i did.
This was the first run through the press so there were quite a few times where i had to remove a case which meant the primers were ejected from the press.
I simply took them off the tray put them on the primer disk then reinserted them into the press when i was ready.

I didnt think anything of it at the time, but is there a different way i should be doing this?
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Silverfoxdj
That is exactly what I used.

The only time i handled them was when the press fed them and there was no case on the press meaning they were ejected to the good primer tray and then put back into the primer feeder.
 
smilloy said:
Silverfoxdj
That is exactly what I used.

The only time i handled them was when the press fed them and there was no case on the press meaning they were ejected to the good primer tray and then put back into the primer feeder.
Click to expand...

Then I don't think handling is the issue...
 
I think you said you wet tumble cleaned them with primer in and then deprimed as you loaded, that may be the problem, I believe you should deprime before wet tumbling and dry as was described above!
 
You could check that the primers are fully seated by setting them on a flat surface and checking for wobble. The proud ones will be obvious. Tighter guns like the CZ do not operate well with even slightly proud primers. In fact, some guns will not lock up properly which can cause the firing pin block to catch or slow down the firing pin resulting in no ignition on the primer.

The case jamb you mentioned, if indeed the casing does not exit the chamber, is a resizing problem in that the die is not going deep enough on the casing. Sometimes this is exacerbated by using brass that has been fired in a looser chambered gun, not fully resized and used in your tighter chambered gun barrel. BTW, this could also be the cause of your primers not being ignited! I have a new, very tight barrel on one of my guns that will not accept some of my reloaded rounds, yet in every other 9mm I have, these same rounds work perfectly.

As far as your TG load, 3.6 gr should be fine for error free use in your gun; however, you may find the PF to be on the lower limit for a competition (minor) load.

Depending on you method of drying the cases, overnight near an air source or fan works very well, even with the old primers still in the cases. This is why you bought the progressive press in the first place.
 
smilloy said:
Freedomintheskies,
Yes it is possible that i did.
This was the first run through the press so there were quite a few times where i had to remove a case which meant the primers were ejected from the press.
I simply took them off the tray put them on the primer disk then reinserted them into the press when i was ready.

I didnt think anything of it at the time, but is there a different way i should be doing this?
Click to expand...

All of the reloading manuals caution against this due to possibly contaminating the sensitive primer compound with oil which will make it inert. It's happened to me a few times in the past.

Also, you should ensure your cases are totally dry before priming and powdering.
 
smilloy said:
Anyone have any ideas? I was told pistol brass does not need to be deprimed prior to reloading, so I did not do that. Is it likely my problem is just me not pressing the handle hard enough to seat the primer properly, or could there be something else i missed? (if its just me not pressing hard enough thats easy to fix).
Click to expand...

What do you mean by this?.... What did you do step by step?
 
If the firing pin is impacting the primers, and they aren't igniting the problem would be with the primers. Try in another pistol to confirm. Federal have had issues in the past, and wouldn't rule out a batch of bad primers again.
 
Thought i'd throw this in. I've loaded a lot of ammo, but there was an instance last year when an entire box of 100 Cheddite shotshell primers wouldn't go off, not one of them. The whole group tried them in their guns as well, nothing. Dead.
Only time I've experienced it in over 80K reloading. But it is possible.
 
....I am thinking that I did not let the brass dry out enough.
I cleaned it Saturday morning and loaded them Sunday, but did not use a dryer. Just let them air dry.
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That is just plain not long enough. There would have still been water in the primer pockets and you likely got the new primers wet.

I don't wet tumble my brass. I use an ultrasonic cleaner instead. And the primers are left in. I have reloaded some in as little as three days of it sitting out on a towel. And I don't recall any significant number of mis fires. But I sure would not want to reload any sooner than that. Normally I let them lay out on the old towel for a week just to be sure.

I was desparate for a couple of hundred cases to reload one day. To speed dry them I set up a row about 8 inches wide and a couple of feet long. I then blocked up an old hairdryer to blow over the line of brass on low. Over the course of a couple of hours I stirred the brass around in this row so each got a chance to get good and warm and have the warm air blow over it. Later that evening I reloaded them and shot them the next day. This too worked out but it's only good for a small "emergecy"batch.

Drying them in a toaster oven on very low would be similarly slow and tedious. Time is the easy way to go. But next time be sure to leave the brass for at LEAST 3 days. And it needs to be spread out so the mouths are clear. Some won't be so it's a good idea to sort of re-spread them once a day as you happen by so they all get some "open mouth" time.

Leaving the primers in is fine. The progressive press pushes them out as part of the sequence so why have to pull the lever a second time to deprime? What you're doing is perfectly normal for most folks with handgun ammo. You simply did not let the brass dry long enough and got a bunch of misfires as a result.


I've been thinking of a fruit dehydrater as a dryer. Having a large bath towel laying out covered in brass for a week at a time tends to get in the way. A multi level fruit dehydrater seems like it should be able to dry a few thousand cases in a couple of days in a lot less room. Or I may look at making up a stacking box setup of fly screen bottoms and wood sides that stacks up a bit like a bamboo steaming stack but over a warm air source instead of a pan of boiling water.
 
twoicebergs said:
You could check that the primers are fully seated by setting them on a flat surface and checking for wobble. The proud ones will be obvious. Tighter guns like the CZ do not operate well with even slightly proud primers. In fact, some guns will not lock up properly which can cause the firing pin block to catch or slow down the firing pin resulting in no ignition on the primer.

The case jamb you mentioned, if indeed the casing does not exit the chamber, is a resizing problem in that the die is not going deep enough on the casing. Sometimes this is exacerbated by using brass that has been fired in a looser chambered gun, not fully resized and used in your tighter chambered gun barrel. BTW, this could also be the cause of your primers not being ignited! I have a new, very tight barrel on one of my guns that will not accept some of my reloaded rounds, yet in every other 9mm I have, these same rounds work perfectly.

As far as your TG load, 3.6 gr should be fine for error free use in your gun; however, you may find the PF to be on the lower limit for a competition (minor) load.

Depending on you method of drying the cases, overnight near an air source or fan works very well, even with the old primers still in the cases. This is why you bought the progressive press in the first place.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the input.
I only had 2 cases that failed to eject (they got stuck in the chamber). I had quite a few that got pinched by the slide sideways.
I also noticed that the brass was landing much closer to me than normal. (IE on the bench 1-3 feet away) where as most factory brass lands about 10 feet away from me.
The loaded rounds easily slide in/out of the chamber, and all of the rounds were previously fired by the same CZ

The guy who recommended the 3.6gn load said to make sure i had the 11lb recoil spring in the cz. (I was under the impression thats what it shipepd with, but either way I tried the other springs that it came with and had the same result). I figured it was just a lighter load so it wasnt throwing the cases as far.
 
BCRider said:
That is just plain not long enough. There would have still been water in the primer pockets and you likely got the new primers wet.

I don't wet tumble my brass. I use an ultrasonic cleaner instead. And the primers are left in. I have reloaded some in as little as three days of it sitting out on a towel. And I don't recall any significant number of mis fires. But I sure would not want to reload any sooner than that. Normally I let them lay out on the old towel for a week just to be sure.

I was desparate for a couple of hundred cases to reload one day. To speed dry them I set up a row about 8 inches wide and a couple of feet long. I then blocked up an old hairdryer to blow over the line of brass on low. Over the course of a couple of hours I stirred the brass around in this row so each got a chance to get good and warm and have the warm air blow over it. Later that evening I reloaded them and shot them the next day. This too worked out but it's only good for a small "emergecy"batch.

Drying them in a toaster oven on very low would be similarly slow and tedious. Time is the easy way to go. But next time be sure to leave the brass for at LEAST 3 days. And it needs to be spread out so the mouths are clear. Some won't be so it's a good idea to sort of re-spread them once a day as you happen by so they all get some "open mouth" time.

Leaving the primers in is fine. The progressive press pushes them out as part of the sequence so why have to pull the lever a second time to deprime? What you're doing is perfectly normal for most folks with handgun ammo. You simply did not let the brass dry long enough and got a bunch of misfires as a result.


I've been thinking of a fruit dehydrater as a dryer. Having a large bath towel laying out covered in brass for a week at a time tends to get in the way. A multi level fruit dehydrater seems like it should be able to dry a few thousand cases in a couple of days in a lot less room. Or I may look at making up a stacking box setup of fly screen bottoms and wood sides that stacks up a bit like a bamboo steaming stack but over a warm air source instead of a pan of boiling water.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the comments. I tend to agree the problem is likely just the fact that I am impatient and didnt let them dry long enough. Truthfully I didnt even think of it being wet under the old primer. I just made sure the actual brass was dry.
 
I save up my brass and process them when I've filled a 5 gallon bucket or two, so I went with a CED dryer to speed up the drying. Was about $80 bucks a couple years ago. It's sized to match the CED tumbler I bought - so I process ~ 700 9mm cases a batch. The only negative about the CED unit is, it does not have a timer built in, so I plugged it in to a timer I set for 4 hours. I tried decapping brass after that and found the primer holes bone dry. If I'm cleaning brass during the summer, I just leave the tumbled brass out in the sun and it dries pretty quick too.

View attachment 48455
 
It is difficult to contaminate a modern primer. They are well sealed. if the inside of the case was wet, the powder will be hard to ignite, so the problem is probably a wet powder issue. I have never washed a case, or used the steel pin method, so have not had this problem myself.

3.6 gr of Titegroup is what I use with a 135 gr bullet. Sounds a bit mild for a 124. 3.8 or 3.9 should be just fine.
 
Another option for drying brass is to use a warming tray - they were popular back in the 70s and used to keep food warm. Wet brass gets shaken in a sieve to remove excess water, goes in an aluminium baking tray, and sits on the warmer overnight. Easy.
 
The dehydrater at Wally's World looks like a carbon copy for design as the CED unit. Just got fruity coloured plastic instead of tactical black.... :d

Barnes, is the warming tray the thing that looks like a big rectangular slow cooker? I seem to recall something like that.

Wet powder as Ganderite suggested is another option. When laid out for that short a time if the mouth of a casing is up against the side or head of another it may not dry out inside by much at all in that sort of time frame.
 
Yep, that Salton food dehydrator looks identical. Great price at $55 :)

Question, if the problem is the powder, and not the primer - wouldn't the result be a squib load? You would be able to hear the primer pop and if the powder didn't ignite, wouldn't the projectile get pushed some small distance into the barrel? We had one fellow with a squib at the last USPSA match, and his projectile got pushed ~ 2" into his barrel.

BCRider said:
The dehydrater at Wally's World looks like a carbon copy for design as the CED unit. Just got fruity coloured plastic instead of tactical black.... :d

Barnes, is the warming tray the thing that looks like a big rectangular slow cooker? I seem to recall something like that.

Wet powder as Ganderite suggested is another option. When laid out for that short a time if the mouth of a casing is up against the side or head of another it may not dry out inside by much at all in that sort of time frame.
Click to expand...
 
VanMan said:
Yep, that Salton food dehydrator looks identical. Great price at $55 :)

Question, if the problem is the powder, and not the primer - wouldn't the result be a squib load? You would be able to hear the primer pop and if the powder didn't ignite, wouldn't the projectile get pushed some small distance into the barrel? We had one fellow with a squib at the last USPSA match, and his projectile got pushed ~ 2" into his barrel.
Click to expand...

I would have expected the primer to push the bullet into the throat. If my 223 primer does not ignite the powder, the bullet is stuck in the throat.

OP, when you dump the powder, does it all look fresh, or is some of it lumpy and discoloured? If the primer fired, it should leave a mark on the powder.
 
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