Primers

H4831

H4831

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People who have noticed what I write on these posts over the years, will have gathered the opinion that I really do not care much about what primers I use and they would be correct!
I got this way from my early reloading experiences, when absolutely no loading chart I ever saw, made any distinction on the type, or brand, of primer to use with any given load for rifles or handguns.
Also, in my early reloading I used Norma powders, bullets and cases, but I always used RWS primers, I think mainly because in their standard packaging of 250, they were a bit cheaper than were CIL primers.
In later years I read all I could read on primers and primer lab tests and the results from two such tests stand out.

1) How hard the firing pin hits the primer affected the fire power of the primer a great deal. They stated that a magnum primer hit with a weak firing pin gave a weaker spark, than did a standard primer hit with a hard hitting firing pin.

2) A lab test of all the primers in existence, came up with the results that a standard RWS rifle primer had more fire power than any of the magnum primers tested.

One of the things that always bugs me is when someone writes that if you use ball powder, or maybe if the temperature gets to minus 18, "You have to use a magnum primer."
If that is so, I wonder why the Winchester reloading booklet I have, maybe from the 1970s, brags up how good and how efficient the ball powders they developed in 1933 and used ever since are, do not mention, even once, in the entire little booklet, that a magnum primer should be used!
Also, on Hodgdon's plastic bottles of 414 powder, which is the old Winchester #1760 ball powder, they print right on the bottle, loads for six calibres of rifle, and on five of those, including the 30-06, they state to use a Win LR primer. Only on the 338 do they recommend a magnum primer.
Anyway, back to the original story I was going to tell. At a gun show on the week end I bought four 250 primer packages of RWS primers, from the age group of the early 1960s when I regularly used RWS primers!
Plus, I bought a few hundred Norma primers and they are the first Norma primers I have ever seen.
So, will likely run some velocity tests with the Norma primers, just because! But I have no doubt they will be like any Norma product and be great.
Thanks, for any of you who have managed to get through all of this.
Bruce
 
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I noticed by accident ( when I ran out of magnum primers ) that win wlr primers in my 7mm gave me smaller groups compared to the wlrm , so I kept using them winter and summer haven't had a problem
 
HaHa, no kidding, you are one of the few posters I'd have bother to read through that much info. Thanks for the insights.

I typically pick primer more by hardness, as in CCI hardness for semis, Federal for light strikes.
H4831 said:
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Thanks, for any of you who have managed to get through all of this.
Bruce
Click to expand...
 
Not surprisingly, Winchester's own standard primers are formulated to fire their own gunpowder. They're hotter than some magnums. Handloaders are barely a drop in the bucket of the total market.
 
Norma used to use Federal 215s in the Weatherby factory loads, so yeah, sorta. The 215 was actually developed for the Weatherby cartridges,loaded by Norma. Apparently they needed them.

I am curious though, which Norma primers do you have, and what colour is the priming compound and cup.
 
Remington ran our American Lake City Army Ammunition plant from 1941 until 1985 when Winchester got the contract to produce ammunition at Lake City.
Our military prefers double base ball powders so Remington loaded Winchester ball powder in much of the ammunition.
"BUT" Remington used their own 7 1/2 primers in all the 5.56 ammunition with both single and double base powders. (baby flame throwers) ;)

3CCIBR4_zpsa43a3c3a.jpg


1Federal205M_zpseb8ed0a5.jpg


4WinchesterWSR_zps52ffe213.jpg


5Remington75_zps2b532d7c.jpg


In the Hornady manual they use the Winchester WSR primers for the .223/5.56
In the Speer manual there is a * at the bottom of the page that says "Magnum primer used with this powder" meaning *748, *H335, *BLC2 etc.
So if the manual tells you to use magnum primers because double base powders are harder to ignite due to their deterrent coatings I see no reason not to believe them.

Primer Effectiveness Study

http://www.the-long-family.com/primer_study.htm
 
In any load where I utilize ball powder, I try to use the hottest primers I can find. Everything that I have ever read has indicated that ball powder can be a little harder to ignite, so I have always thought it to be a good practice.
 
As mentioned above, Winchester primers were/are made to ignite Winchester powders (ball).

I have had combinations of ball powder and light bullets that would click bang 75% of the time unless I used a Magnum primer.

The factors that can require hot primers are light bullets in a big case, light powder charges of ball or slow powder, light neck tension and cold weather. I suggest that if you have 2 of those factors, use a hotter primer.
 
Here are the Norma primers.
Note that there is nothing to indicate whether they are standard or magnum type.
Also, note they were made in Austria.
Wayne, note there is a green tinge to them.
Bruce

 
I have a bunch of cil primers I use for plinking loads and they always work for me but they have look different than current primers.
 
Yes Kelly, talk about mixed up information! Anyone can just about pick what they want.
When I said it bugs me when someone says, "You have to use a magnum primer with ball powder --" I meant how can anyone be so decisive on such a controversial subject?
Just look at this bottle of H414, the old Winchester ball powder 760, and see the mixed up info that Hodgdon's give, right on the loading information on the powder.
 
Has no one used Norma primers?
I guess I better run a velocity test on them, after reading Ganderite's last posting.
No worries about the other uncommon ones I got, the RWS primers, as they are identical to what I used extensively a long time ago.
Bruce
 
Lucky SOD !! Finding RWS primers !!! No, I haven't used Norma primers, didn't know they were available.

Mind telling where you found/bought/stole the Norma primers ??
 
H4831 said:
Yes Kelly, talk about mixed up information! Anyone can just about pick what they want.
When I said it bugs me when someone says, "You have to use a magnum primer with ball powder --" I meant how can anyone be so decisive on such a controversial subject?
Just look at this bottle of H414, the old Winchester ball powder 760, and see the mixed up info that Hodgdon's give, right on the loading information on the powder.
Click to expand...

That info does not look "mixed up". All those primers listed are what I would consider hotter than, say, the CCi or Federal standard primer.
 
MEC said:
Lucky SOD !! Finding RWS primers !!! No, I haven't used Norma primers, didn't know they were available.

Mind telling where you found/bought/stole the Norma primers ??
Click to expand...

At the Lumby gun show on Saturday and actually it was a Kamloops vendor that had them, both the RWS and the Norma.
 
Boy, yew shoulda seen the silly smile on his face.
I knew he had something fabulous, big mitts clutching sumting.
No wunder them Norma's are green, he sqweezed thuh snawt owtta them..............:cool:
 
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