Priming Berdan rifle brass with shotgun primers

kjohn

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OK, this is not my idea to start with, so I'll credit the fellow who planted the seed. He made a post to the effect that he had scads of boxer brass but was short on rifle primers. He had the idea to use shotgun primers, of which he had an abundance.

I have experimented previously with some Czech/Yugo ? Berdan brass, but wasn't impressed. I was having trouble keeping the brass centered when drilling out the primer pocket to accept a shotgun primer.

Another good CGN'r posted the idea of drilling a hole in a hockey puck, just a wee bit smaller that the base of the brass, in my case it will be 30-06, 308 (7.62x51), 8x57, to start with. Then cut the puck in half, through the hole, side to side. Clamp the brass in the hole, and squeeze it tight in the vice on the drill press bed, then center it using the adjustments available on the vice. I drilled a couple of brass down through the mouth, to avoid having to deal with the little anvil sticking up in the pocket. I used a "C" letter drill bit, which works great for shotgun primers.(the tip about using a "C" letter bit came from another good CGN'r)

I turned the brass over, clamped it and centered it, then used a bigger bit and "chamfered" the base to allow the primer sleeve to sit flush with the base. I used a sleeve from a spent shotgun primer, tapped it in flush. I have a small supply of C-I-L 4B primers that were used to reprime the sleeve back in the day. I set the 4B into my brand new LEE hand primer and seated the primer. (this worked like a charm, but it won't work with a modern shotgun primer) Then I FL sized, belled and chamfered the mouth, and ...there you have it - a primed brass. These brass will be used for light rifle plinking loads.

Yes, I know it's a lot of fiddling around!! Today, the wind is blowing, it's snowing, so this is what I did. I should also credit my buddy Deaner, who drilled the precision hole and cut the puck in half. I will pay attention to any tips or suggestions regarding this little project.
 
OK, this is not my idea to start with, so I'll credit the fellow who planted the seed. He made a post to the effect that he had scads of boxer brass but was short on rifle primers. He had the idea to use shotgun primers, of which he had an abundance.

I have experimented previously with some Czech/Yugo ? Berdan brass, but wasn't impressed. I was having trouble keeping the brass centered when drilling out the primer pocket to accept a shotgun primer.

Another good CGN'r posted the idea of drilling a hole in a hockey puck, just a wee bit smaller that the base of the brass, in my case it will be 30-06, 308 (7.62x51), 8x57, to start with. Then cut the puck in half, through the hole, side to side. Clamp the brass in the hole, and squeeze it tight in the vice on the drill press bed, then center it using the adjustments available on the vice. I drilled a couple of brass down through the mouth, to avoid having to deal with the little anvil sticking up in the pocket. I used a "C" letter drill bit, which works great for shotgun primers.(the tip about using a "C" letter bit came from another good CGN'r)

I turned the brass over, clamped it and centered it, then used a bigger bit and "chamfered" the base to allow the primer sleeve to sit flush with the base. I used a sleeve from a spent shotgun primer, tapped it in flush. I have a small supply of C-I-L 4B primers that were used to reprime the sleeve back in the day. I set the 4B into my brand new LEE hand primer and seated the primer. (this worked like a charm, but it won't work with a modern shotgun primer) Then I FL sized, belled and chamfered the mouth, and ...there you have it - a primed brass. These brass will be used for light rifle plinking loads.

Yes, I know it's a lot of fiddling around!! Today, the wind is blowing, it's snowing, so this is what I did. I should also credit my buddy Deaner, who drilled the precision hole and cut the puck in half. I will pay attention to any tips or suggestions regarding this little project.

In the apocalypse/eotwawki, this guy is taking all of our wives.:LOL:(y)
Nothing wrong with tinkering around, especially during the winter.
 
Kjohn, I've been where you're at with these cases, but just bit the "bullet," and went back to decapping the berdan primers with the home made tool I have.

You're going to have to be very careful with pressures, because slightly after minimum specs, the new primer pockets will start "leaking" hot gasses against your bolt face.

Berdan primers are available in Canada, and they're about the same price as Boxer types.

In shot shells, the primers have "regular" pockets, with a small hole for the flash.

With the method you're using, the face of the primer becomes the face of the inside surface of the case, and it's not nearly as strong as everything around it.

That means the strongest part of the case now has a "large" weakness.

I had some nasty blow by when I used this method to utilize some of the excellent brass cases used to make hard to find surplus ammunition.

The shot shell primers were very tight when inserting, but there were still issues.

Be careful.
 
OK, this is not my idea to start with, so I'll credit the fellow who planted the seed. He made a post to the effect that he had scads of boxer brass but was short on rifle primers. He had the idea to use shotgun primers, of which he had an abundance.

I have experimented previously with some Czech/Yugo ? Berdan brass, but wasn't impressed. I was having trouble keeping the brass centered when drilling out the primer pocket to accept a shotgun primer.

Another good CGN'r posted the idea of drilling a hole in a hockey puck, just a wee bit smaller that the base of the brass, in my case it will be 30-06, 308 (7.62x51), 8x57, to start with. Then cut the puck in half, through the hole, side to side. Clamp the brass in the hole, and squeeze it tight in the vice on the drill press bed, then center it using the adjustments available on the vice. I drilled a couple of brass down through the mouth, to avoid having to deal with the little anvil sticking up in the pocket. I used a "C" letter drill bit, which works great for shotgun primers.(the tip about using a "C" letter bit came from another good CGN'r)

I turned the brass over, clamped it and centered it, then used a bigger bit and "chamfered" the base to allow the primer sleeve to sit flush with the base. I used a sleeve from a spent shotgun primer, tapped it in flush. I have a small supply of C-I-L 4B primers that were used to reprime the sleeve back in the day. I set the 4B into my brand new LEE hand primer and seated the primer. (this worked like a charm, but it won't work with a modern shotgun primer) Then I FL sized, belled and chamfered the mouth, and ...there you have it - a primed brass. These brass will be used for light rifle plinking loads.

Yes, I know it's a lot of fiddling around!! Today, the wind is blowing, it's snowing, so this is what I did. I should also credit my buddy Deaner, who drilled the precision hole and cut the puck in half. I will pay attention to any tips or suggestions regarding this little project.
I shoot a fair bit of brass in my shotguns (20, 16 & 410) I converted all of them to 209’s (200 magtechs, 100 .444 and 200 .303 Brit) I did one berdan primer 16ga that I found in my shop. I drill mine out on a lathe so centering is no issue. I use a “C” letter bit for the hole and a step bit for the counter sink. Counter sink .20 thou give a perfect flush mount.
 
Ltk: Thanks for the info. I don't have a lathe, just a Chinese drill press and one of those el cheapo little vices that adjust four ways.
 
Replacing a Berdan primer with a shotgun battery cup type primer may be OK for low pressure loads. The battery cup primer is obviously designed to function at shotgun pressures. Battery cup primers can be reprimed using just the primer cup with anvil. Back in the day, you could reload shotgun shells by replacing the whole battery cup primer assembly or just replacing the inner primer with anvil.
Reloading with Berdan primers is easier than altering cases for primers that limit the loads you can use -if you can find Berdan primers of the correct size.
 
interesting

I have a lathe and when I run out of 8x63 ammo I will need to think about a solution.
The 8x63, is a great cartridge, I played with a lot of it at one time with the very cheap crates of ammunition, that came in large wooden crates, filled with paper boxes of the ammo on cloth belts for Swedish machine guns.

It's pretty hot stuff and make a great hunting round.

I wore out a barrel with it, then sold of the last couple of cases, along with a spare barrel and the reamer to a CGNer who was interested in playing with it.

Primer Outside CupThicknessCup Manufacturer
Number Diameter Height Of Base Material UsageOr
mm 0.000" mm 0.000" mm 0.000" Supplier
1266.340.2502.830.1110.450.0180brass Note G Kynock
1726.450.2543.380.1330.3300.013brass Note J Eley
4500 4.500 0.1772.200.090.400.0157 Note A RWS
45204.5000.177 2.10 0.08 0.55 0.0217 Note B RWS
45214.5000.1772.200.090.400.0157 Note C RWS
50055.000.1972.200.090.400.0157 Note D RWS
56085.500.2172.800.110.700.0276 Note E RWS
56205.500.2172.650.100.600.0236 Note F RWS
60006.340.2502.850.110.790.031 Note H RWS
65046.450.2542.350.900.450.0177 Note I RWS
65076.450.2543.400.1330.330.0130 Note J RWS

Notes for number based table​

Note A
Intended for use in small pistol rounds like .25 ACP, .32 ACP, .380 ACP and some 9mm calibres.

Note B
Used in small rifle rounds like .22 Hornet, .222 Remington, 5.6 and some obsolete small calibres.

Note C
Sometimes noted as 'Parabellum primer' used in 9 mm Luger (9 x 19), Steyr and majority of pistol rounds that use 4.5 mm primers.

Note D
Used in large calibre pistol rounds. Also known as 'Medium Berdan'.

Note E
Commonly used in Europe for 7.62 NATO rounds, often known as 'standard NATO'.

Note F
The most common 5.5 mm Berdan primer for rifle calibres (90% of 5.5 mm types).

Note G
Produced around 1965 and used in Kynoch production ammunition and primed cases.

Note H
Used in .303 British and related calibres, sometimes known as 'quarter inch' or Large Berdan Rifle.

Note I
For the .577 Snider, .577-.450 Martini Henry, 43 Egyptian and others. Also known as Extra Large Berdan.

Note J
Cup material 29 BWG (Birmingham Wire Gauge) RWS 6507 interchangeable with Eley 172 and used on many of the large Nitro calibres. Sometimes known as Oversize Berdan or Nitro Berdan.
 
Replacing a Berdan primer with a shotgun battery cup type primer may be OK for low pressure loads. The battery cup primer is obviously designed to function at shotgun pressures. Battery cup primers can be reprimed using just the primer cup with anvil. Back in the day, you could reload shotgun shells by replacing the whole battery cup primer assembly or just replacing the inner primer with anvil.
Reloading with Berdan primers is easier than altering cases for primers that limit the loads you can use -if you can find Berdan primers of the correct size.
I had thought briefly of using 209 in some rifle calibres but rejected that idea. Just figured if 209’s were suitable for rifle pressures, someone would be making ammo that way. When I stated that I converted 444 and 303 Brit. They are both used as 410’s. I don’t understand why it would be an issue but because I don’t understand I won’t try it.
 
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