priming powder

migrant hunter

migrant hunter

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
182   0   0
Location
Southern Alberta
Don"t know if this has been discussed here, and I"m too lazy and tired to search.
I"m using a Lyman flintlock plains rifle, priming and charging with
FFFG Triple 7.
My ignition is"nt very reliable(I"ve been reading up, and I think I need to clean my frizzen between shots)
Sometimes I am getting visible sparks and no ignition in the pan. Is FFFG Triple 7 ok for priming? I have read that larger grain powder traps the sparks better, or that finer powder is needed for speed. Is real black better for priming?
Also I have been using cut agate flints. These seem to work for about 6 shots, and the get dull(I may have been letting the frizzen get dirty and the wasted the flint by bashing away at a a dirty frizzen)
Any constructive advice appreciated.
 
I suspect that you need to use real black powder for priming and probably a small charge (10 grains) against the breach to ignite the main charge.

cheers mooncoon
 
I think you need to use real black powder for both the priming and the main charge, substitutes are much harder to ignite. If you lived closer, i have lots of GOEX 4F I could give you, if it doesn't ignite, you do have a prob.
 
Everyone I've ever talked to who used Triple 7 in a flintlock had ignition problems. Use real BP and your problems will go away. I use Goex FFFG to shoot and prime the pan. Just fill it up to just below the touchhole. Ignition is almost instantaneous.
 
nothing nothing NOTHING compairs to FFFFg black powder in a pan...

the ammount of heat and flash is dramatic compaired to FFFg pyrodex or 777... when you go from the sub's to real black its actually a step up in performance and ignition not a step back like the manufacturers propaganda tells you...
 
One suggestion that I have not tried myself, is to sift the powder. Use the proper sized granules for the main charge, the fines (dust and small particles) for the priming charge.

I was reading about it (sifting) in relation to cartridge loading, and it seems to me to be a reasonable way to get some finer powder for the pan.

Anyone tried this?

IIRC the screens used were fairly fancy stuff, screens used for grading aggregates and silt, available in graded sizes.

Cheers
Trev
 
First, use real black powder in the pan (4F) and the barrel (2F or 3F depending on the bore and preference of the rilfe). You can use a "booster" charge at the base of the load if you feel like going to the trouble but I've never bothered and don't know anyone that does. Too much fiddling if you are going to shoot 20 - 50 rounds a day. If it made a real difference I'm sure some of the serious target guys would do it but I've never seen it.

Second, use real flints. Nearly all shooters I know prefer the real knapped flints. Some like the cut agate because they can get more shots before having to knap but the cut ones usually don't knap very well when they do get dull. The real flint has a more uneven edge that I believe gives hotter or larger sparks.

When loading either leave the vent pick in place or make it the last step to drive a pick into the powder charge. When priming a little goes a long way. Don't fill the pan right full or have it piled up against the touch hole. You want the flash to blast into the hole rather than having to burn through the whole lot before it reaches the flash hole. Many shooters fill the pan about half full, close it and then tip the rifle to the side so that the priming charge is AWAY from the barrel.

If flints aren't sparking well or lasting very long try turning them over, seating them farther forward or back, or different sized flints. Always make sure that they are as tight as possible in the hammer and mounted in leather or similar. If all else fails find someone who really knows flinters and and how to tune locks and have them look at the lock geometry. I've heard that Track of the Wolf will tune locks if sent to them but have no firsthand knowledge.

If you are getting consistent pan flash but poor ignition its usually due to not using the vent pick often enough or to overfilling the pan. Sometimes its a case of the lock not being properly aligned with the vent but thats pretty rare. If thats not the issue and the gun uses removeable vent liners taking it out and opening the hole a little from the rear but NOT all the way through to the front can sometimes help. When drilled out all the way through the blast out the side increases a great deal and it will erode faster to become even bigger. Drilling out the hole all the way through is a last resort particularly if the barrel doesn't have replaceable liners.

Flintlocks were the dominant shooting technology for centuries. These brass cartridge things and smokeless powder have only been around a fraction of the time that blackpowder was used. The principals are fairly simple but as with most simple things its the details that make all the difference.

If you can find an experienced shooter to watch or talk to jump at the chance. Some flintlocks have no more locktime than a percussion gun on a good day. The Black Powder club in Lethbridge has a monthly club shoot west of the airport on the first Sunday of the month through the summer and there are always at least a couple of people with flinters shooting as well as BP shotgun, handgun and cartridge events.

If I've made any serious mistakes I hope that Mooncoon or some of the others will point them out. I'm still new to flinters myself only having shot one seriously the last 3 or 4 years now after being a caplock guy before that. I've just been lucky enough toknow a lot of folks with decades of experience.
 
crooked barrel jed said:
are you using the touchhole liner that came from the factory? we had very inconsistant ignition with my buddy's lyman flinter,it was cured by drilling the touchhole bigger
Click to expand...

I hah to drill my Lyman GPR bigger also and use Geox fffg for main charge and prime pan. If your using Lyman's cut flints I would switch to true knapped flints. PM me if you need sources.
 
I have used a custom built flint lock for nearly 30 years and there are tricks of the "rock-lock" that take a bit of work.
-As mentioned earlier experiment with knapping your flint, it takes a bit of practice but it can be done. A good knapping hammer (brass, with a flat bladed end) works best. Stay away from agate or any formed type of flint. English black flint is the best you will find...buy lots.
-As for a touch hole pick, find yourself one of the large paper clips, or a cutting torch orifice pick set. The cutting torch set has different sized picks which have slight abrasive edge to them...not really the best but will do. The paperclip works great. Straighten it out first. Insert it into the touch hole all the way prior to loading, angle it so when you look down at he closed frizzen the pick is angled to the rear of the gun...this gives you more "surface area" inside the charge. When loading the main charge, ensure it is fully compacted.
-The best priming powder is real Black powder, FFFFG. No need to completely fill the pan...it is a waste and a distraction to your sight picture. In the pan lay a fuller amount at the outside of the pan, trailing to a thinner amount at the touch hole. The burning of the powder will follow this and actually "fire the fire" into the touch hole.
-Adjusting the flint in the hammer jaws. The flint needs to contact the frizzen squarely and completely. Using your pick, close the frizzen, loosen the hammer jaws and place the pick between the flint and frizzen face. Tighten the jaws...the flint should not move. Note here...some guys use leather to clamp around the flint, which works OK, though the leather will cut if the jaws are closed real tight, the flint will then loosen. Take one of your balls...LEAD ROUND BALLS...of the caliber your are using, and hammer it flat to about 1/16" thick. wrap this around the flint and clamp into the jaws and adjust as aforementioned.
I have been using this technique for as long as I have had the custom gun and was shown this by the builder of my rifle. The gun will fire upside down with consistency. The lock is a Siler and was custom tuned by the builder, who is in Havre Montana (no Longer building though). I have tried guns with L&R locks, Thompson Centre, Lyman and spaghetti locks (euroarms, Dixie Gun works, and CVA, etc). The L&R lock was good once you got rid of the roller frizzen spring. All the spaghetti locks were trash, The thompson Centre had some promise though work was needed for them to function reliably.
Hope this helps your out.
Cheers
 
Last edited:
Problem with flintlocks is the new substitute powders dont ignight well with a spark, they take some fairly high heat to ignight (even No.11 and musket caps arent 100%).
as vagrantviking said you need to use 4f in the pan and 2 or 3 f in the barrel, if you want to use a substitute you need a base charge of 3f to help ignight the substitute. only needs to be maybe 5 grains just enough to help it along.

substitutes are mainly made for the new inlines, made for the high heat from a 209 primer.
 
I love you all!

Thanks for the advice, I got some 3f goex. Went to the range this morning, and I feel like I have a new gun! I can"t believe how fast it is! And it fires every time I pull the trigger! I had one missfire, wiped the frizzen and pan, and she fired. (at least a dozen shots with an old agate "flint" that is"nt even sharp)
Now I need to work on my load, but I"m a happy bunny. My rear sight won"t come up high enough without getting loose, so if I can"t get a load to shoot to point of aim, I might have to file the front sight. I had to come home to get a ceaning kit(the lube I had this morning is crap, came back to clean and get bore butter).
I love black powder!
 
Great to hear that you are seeing good results.

Don't forget the Fort Whoop-up Black Powder Club in Lethbridge has a great range and lots of nice people to meet at shoots every month all summer. Come on out!
 
Glad to hear that things have improved. If you still find yourself having more problems than you want to over time, there is an upgraded frizzen available for the lyman locks that is supposed to help a lot.

I didn't try it myself, I bought a new siler lock from TOTW and installed it. Much Better!
 
I can"t believe how reliable my gun is now. With just 3fg in the pan, it fired
consistantly, bar one or two out of maybe 40 shots today. I turned the flint round eventualy, but I can"t believe the same flint lasted all day.
I have read about flinters being as fast and relaible as percussion, but only now do I believe it!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom