problem being accurate at distance

Unlike rifles where the ammo makes a big difference I've not found that handguns gain or lose a lot with different ammo. If the darn thing can't keep more than a couple of hits on a regular size page at 25 meters now changing ammo isn't going to turn it into a tight grouping tack driver.

However it does suggest a couple of things. One is that your sights are off enough that you're not actually shooting where you're aiming. At closer in distances are your groups centered around the spot where you aimed or are they over to one side? If the rounds are hitting slightly off then at the longer range you may be doing OK but there's no paper out that far to the side/higher/lower to catch them.

The other is that your Norinco is just not all that accurate. It may have some burrs or other setup issues such that the barrel does not seat consistently in the slide each time it's cycled. Or something may be out of spec with the bore and rifling. Also check to see if there's a big ding or if the muzzle crown looks uneven. If so then some smoothening/polishing of the lug edges of the barrel and slide may allow the barrel to seat more consistently in the slide when it goes into battery. Also check and clean the barrel if you haven't done so recently and see that the rifling is in good shape. The twist pattern should be smooth, shiney and easy to make out with a light shineing through the chamber and you looking down the other end. Or if the muzzle crown looks funky it may be time to have it re-crowned by a gunsmith or a machinist that knows how to center the bore and cut a new crown on a lathe.

The fact that others have shot it and found it wanting and that it doesn't do any better from a rest doesn't sound all that good.
 
BCRider said:
Unlike rifles where the ammo makes a big difference I've not found that handguns gain or lose a lot with different ammo. If the darn thing can't keep more than a couple of hits on a regular size page at 25 meters now changing ammo isn't going to turn it into a tight grouping tack driver.

However it does suggest a couple of things. One is that your sights are off enough that you're not actually shooting where you're aiming. At closer in distances are your groups centered around the spot where you aimed or are they over to one side? If the rounds are hitting slightly off then at the longer range you may be doing OK but there's no paper out that far to the side/higher/lower to catch them.

The other is that your Norinco is just not all that accurate. It may have some burrs or other setup issues such that the barrel does not seat consistently in the slide each time it's cycled. Or something may be out of spec with the bore and rifling. Also check to see if there's a big ding or if the muzzle crown looks uneven. If so then some smoothening/polishing of the lug edges of the barrel and slide may allow the barrel to seat more consistently in the slide when it goes into battery. Also check and clean the barrel if you haven't done so recently and see that the rifling is in good shape. The twist pattern should be smooth, shiney and easy to make out with a light shineing through the chamber and you looking down the other end. Or if the muzzle crown looks funky it may be time to have it re-crowned by a gunsmith or a machinist that knows how to center the bore and cut a new crown on a lathe.

The fact that others have shot it and found it wanting and that it doesn't do any better from a rest doesn't sound all that good.
Click to expand...

Thanks BC, those are exactly the type of things I was looking for. I will start checking into those things..the crown looks ok from first inspection, but I might get it to a gunsmith to get a professional opinion. I'll also look the other things over and get bigger paper for next time I go to the range.

Llywelyn
 
Try bench resting it at your 10 meter target. Single action only, off a sand bag or similar rest, drag up a chair and shoot slowly and carefully. This will determine what the pistol is doing. If you can't hit your 8 x 10 target at 10 meters, or group nicely off a bench rest, your pistol needs work. The triggers are sometimes in need of work on Norincos.

I have owned Norinco "SIG copies" and found them excellent shooters. My NP34 was every bit as accurate as the P228 it copies. It just wasn't a P228 and I couldn't swap the top end for a .22 etc. so I sold it. I'm sure there are bad Norincos, just as there are bad SIGs and bad everything else these days.

But bench rest it and report back: can you hold a tight group with it rested or not?
 
Shooting for 6 months? It takes practice. Lots of practice firing every shot perfectly, as taught to you by a coach.

Without a coach you are practicing shooting poorly.

Not trying to be rude, but thems the facts.

If a good shot can make your pistol shoot well, the rest is up to you. My Norcs shot two handed at 20 yards:

NZ75135.jpg


NORINCO1911TARGET1.jpg
 
dan belisle said:
An accurate handgun and an accurate shooter should be able to keep your shots around 1" at 25 yards. This is a lot harder to do then you might think, I personally only know maybe a half dozen people who can do it on demand (and I'm not one of them). But it does give you something to aim for (if you'll pardon the play on words) as you develop your skills. Isolate each aspect of your shooting (gun, ammo, technique) and figure out what you need to do to get better. Remember, it's a process. - dan
Click to expand...

Wow, olympic class ISSF shooters would love to achieve that.You know some super human pistoleros :)
 
Take a black badge course.

I've been shooting on and off since I got into shooting a year and a half ago (I try to get out as much as I can between work and school).
At the indoor range with a handgun I could hit the target nicely at 7m out and all over the target at 10m out.

My friend and I just took our black badge course last weekend and aside from having a ton of fun and giving us a ton of new options with shooting in general, I learnt tons of new safety and shooting tips/drills. Now I'm hitting close to bullseye at 10m consistently and getting a nice spread on target at 20m away.
 
Llywelyn said:
The targets I was using were just printed on 8x11 paper. I tried a friends m&p one day...no trouble putting 7 out of 10 shots on the paper. My gun only a couple. going to try some different ammo when I go to the range next.
Click to expand...


At 25 m your gun front sight will partially block entire paper (I assume front post is wide) and correct sight picture will dissipate in surrounding background. Your sight picture will not be as clear as when you were aiming at closer distance.
What is happening you not picking up the error you are making. Increase size of the paper but leave target same. Actually use just big white background paper, make sure it is white. Create just reference point on it and repeat your test shooting from the sand bag. Remember you need highest possible contrast between your sights and target. Only than you can test your gun for accuracy.
 
I seldom shoot at close range. It occurred to me that your problem at 25 yards might relate to where your eye is focused. It MUST focus on the front sight. Does not matter if target is blurry.

At close range the front sight might still have some focus if you have been focusing on the target.
 
Thanks everyone....Assuming the weather co-operates..I'm going to try and make it to the range tomorrow. I'll be giving all this stuff a long try and see what results I can come up with.
 
I recently started pistol shooting, and I found that having the right sight picture, trigger pull, grip, and follow through important. Stance is important too. Every time I fire, I pay attention to everything. Seeing if the sight picture is moving while the trigger is being depressed. If I see the muzzle flash when I fire, I am quite happy.

Does your norinco have adjustable sights by chance?
 
I know this might be an unpopular comment, but one can get a lot of cheap cheap cheap practice with a decent quality air pistol.
Myself I don't own an air pistol, but I have a single shot Hammerli Model 150 in 22 LR.
And using one handed style of shooting, this quality Swiss target pistol is something else at 50 meters with good ammo. During the late summer & early fall I enjoy getting a lot of 50 meter practice along side rimfire rifle hunters sighting in thier 10/22s and such as we most often share the same shooting distance of 50. Perfect!!
When most pistol shooters are present, we often have to compromise and cut the shooting distance to 25 meters.
(I just use smaller targets then)

I know this is not for everyone..........
 
Ganderite said:
Shooting for 6 months? It takes practice. Lots of practice firing every shot perfectly, as taught to you by a coach.

Without a coach you are practicing shooting poorly.

Not trying to be rude, but thems the facts.

If a good shot can make your pistol shoot well, the rest is up to you. My Norcs shot two handed at 20 yards:

NZ75135.jpg


NORINCO1911TARGET1.jpg
Click to expand...

Very nice shooting.

To the OP move your target a lot closer. 1" at 25 yards is beyond the scope of most handguns and less than match ammo. Notice I didn't mention shooters.

The above targets were shot by a very good recreational shooter and likely are beyond most abilities. He has shot a lot and practiced.

Handguns are not rifles and you shouldn't expect rifle accuracy out of them. One of the variables is ammo. Two years ago I benched at 15 yards some Winchester Ranger 147 gr cartridges. From a gun that will hold inside of 1" from a rest at 15 yards the Rangers ammo wouldn't hold 5" at 15 yards. I haven't tried any lately to see if I just had a bad batch but it gives you some idea of what you are up against.

Take Care

Bob
 
Thanks everyone. I made it to the range today(despite the fact it was snowing and -8). And I must humbly admit that part of the issue is my shooting. I shot off a bench at 25 yards with a couple different types of ammo. I wouldn't say that the gun shot well, but at least it was on the paper, with 4-5" groupings. That is considerably better than what I could do without the rest...so I went back to 5 and 10 yards and started over with the basics...mainly focusing on trigger control.(I think I have a tendancy to slap the trigger) I'm not fussy really about pinpoint accuracy with my pistol...I just want to be decent out to certain yardages...and I guess I found my breaking point.(I believe in training until I get it wrong)

I'll continue to focus on those basics until I'm sure I have the proper muscle memory down. I may also try and find someone local who knows and has seen lots of pistols like mine and get them to look it over.

Thanks so much everyone for the advice.
 
This is what I do when I take novice pistol shooters to the range for the first time with a handgun: First and foremost, covering all the basics of safe handling and then basic marksmanship, the last words I often say to them regarding trigger release is "straight back, straight back, straight back" and I get them to repeat this mantra to reinforce thier actions.

Seems to help.
 
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