Problem - Lee Seater Die won't seat short enough

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ShootingNewbie

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Hi - an interesting situation here. I'm starting the process of load development for a new rifle, in .223, and was hoping that someone else out there might have been there first.

So, I started by using my Hornady OAL gauge to measure the length that I should be able to seat the bullet (50gn VMax) to in the chamber. This worked out to be just a hair over the length of the modified case itself, at 1.759" (at ogive) after measuring it several times, using a wooden dowel down the muzzle to wiggle the bullet back and forth to find exactly when it hits the lands. (And yes, I do know the max case length is 1.760" - I can see -just- a sliver of daylight between the case mouth and the bullet comparator when measuring the oal, so I can say that the comparator is reading off the ogive, and not resting on the case itself).

So, using the 1.759" number, I'm now trying to seat a bullet into a case, and I'm finding that I can't get the Lee seating die to seat this bullet to that length - I run out of adjustment at about 1.775, which means that I'd be jamming the bullet into the lands by about 0.016", which I don't really think I would want to be doing with my starting loads.

My first question, I guess, is: is this a known issue with the Lee seating die with some bullets? I've not encountered this before with it, but I've never tried to seat a bullet this close to case length, either.

Second question: would this happen with other seating dies as well, seating this close to max case length? I'm kinda hoping not, so that this issue would be a justification for buying a Redding or Forster seater... :cool:

Note 1: I tried chambering the case that was loaded to 1.775 in the rifle, and it chambered and came back out without the bullet being pressed further down into the case, which makes it sound like the measurement might be wonky, messing me up from the start?

Note 2: I also repeated the whole process with 60gn VMaxes, and things worked better/more normally there (i.e. the measured depth was longer than 1.760, and the seating die worked as expected for the 60gn bullet), which makes it sound like an issue with the particular bullet.

Thanks!
 
To seat the bullet that deep doesn't make sense. The max case length is 1.76. Overall cartridge length is 2.26 which is factory set to fit in any firearm. I think u r measuring your OAL incorrectly
ShootingNewbie said:
Hi - an interesting situation here. I'm starting the process of load development for a new rifle, in .223, and was hoping that someone else out there might have been there first.

So, I started by using my Hornady OAL gauge to measure the length that I should be able to seat the bullet (50gn VMax) to in the chamber. This worked out to be just a hair over the length of the modified case itself, at 1.759" (at ogive) after measuring it several times, using a wooden dowel down the muzzle to wiggle the bullet back and forth to find exactly when it hits the lands. (And yes, I do know the max case length is 1.760" - I can see -just- a sliver of daylight between the case mouth and the bullet comparator when measuring the oal, so I can say that the comparator is reading off the ogive, and not resting on the case itself).

So, using the 1.759" number, I'm now trying to seat a bullet into a case, and I'm finding that I can't get the Lee seating die to seat this bullet to that length - I run out of adjustment at about 1.775, which means that I'd be jamming the bullet into the lands by about 0.016", which I don't really think I would want to be doing with my starting loads.

My first question, I guess, is: is this a known issue with the Lee seating die with some bullets? I've not encountered this before with it, but I've never tried to seat a bullet this close to case length, either.

Second question: would this happen with other seating dies as well, seating this close to max case length? I'm kinda hoping not, so that this issue would be a justification for buying a Redding or Forster seater... :cool:

Note 1: I tried chambering the case that was loaded to 1.775 in the rifle, and it chambered and came back out without the bullet being pressed further down into the case, which makes it sound like the measurement might be wonky, messing me up from the start?

Note 2: I also repeated the whole process with 60gn VMaxes, and things worked better/more normally there (i.e. the measured depth was longer than 1.760, and the seating die worked as expected for the 60gn bullet), which makes it sound like an issue with the particular bullet.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
 
jthoring said:
To seat the bullet that deep doesn't make sense. The max case length is 1.76. Overall cartridge length is 2.26 which is factory set to fit in any firearm. I think u r measuring your OAL incorrectly
Click to expand...

I'd agree with you, except I get firm resistance on the bullet when it's in the gauge - using the dowel and the push rod I can feel it moving back and forth, and I can definitely feel it stop against (what I assume are) the lands. It would take some serious pressure to push the bullet any further in.

Only thing I can think of is maybe the bullet is so short that it's tilting as it moves out of the modified case, and is catching the tip on something (i.e. it's not at the lands, but if that's the situation, then it's happening remarkably consistently, length-wise. Maybe I'll put some double-sided tape on the back of the bullet, to make sure that it can't tip over...
 
nissannx said:
Screw your die in further
Click to expand...

Assuming that you've set the die out a fair bit so it seats but not crimps it may be as simple as suggested by nissannx. You just need to screw the die in lower by a half turn as long as it doesn't begin to crimp. A third to half turn will easily give you the extra 16 thou you are looking for.
 
You aren't trying to set your OAL from base to tip @ your measurement from base to ogive are you? And FWIW my Lee dead length seater in .223 bottoms out to get a 55 gr VMAX to 2.2" OAL. Something got messed up if your loaded round that should be jamming the lands is not touching them.
 
Or...take your Hornady OAL gauge and throw it in the bush, and seat your bullets to 2.200" like it says in the good book.
Somehow, your tools are confusing you and throwing you off by 1/2".
That's rather significant.
 
1) Seat a bullet to the OAL specified in the book

OBLIGATORY DUH WARNING: DO NOT SEAT BULLET INTO A CARTRIDGE THAT HAS A PRIMER OR POWDER IN IT :)

2) Put the cartridge into your action and close the bolt

3) Open the bold and remove the cartridge

Did the bolt close without mangling the bullet/cartridge beyond belief, without the bullet sticking in the lands, or without the bullet being pushed into the case neck?

If so, then you've somehow managed to measure the required OAL incorrectly..
 
HeavyTread said:
1) Seat a bullet to the OAL specified in the book

OBLIGATORY DUH WARNING: DO NOT SEAT BULLET INTO A CARTRIDGE THAT HAS A PRIMER OR POWDER IN IT :)

2) Put the cartridge into your action and close the bolt

3) Open the bold and remove the cartridge

Did the bolt close without mangling the bullet/cartridge beyond belief, without the bullet sticking in the lands, or without the bullet being pushed into the case neck?

If so, then you've somehow managed to measure the required OAL incorrectly..
Click to expand...

I tried this, and the bullet came out the same length afterwards (with no mangling), so it seems like it is the measuring process that is not working.

Trouble is, I can't figure out what could be going amiss in the measuring process with the 50 gn Vmax. 60 gn Vmax, 69 gn SMK, and a few other weight projectiles have worked just fine in the past (although Lake City 55gn's didn't work too well either, but they produced inconsistent readings, whereas these 50 gn VMax's produced very consistent readings, which had me thinking that it was reading correctly).

The measuring itself is a pretty butt-simple process. Would love to see an xray video of the bullet/chamber while I'm trying to put the bullet touching the lands... sigh.
 
Seating the bullet some imaginary distance from the lands is a sometimes augmentation to the accuracy of an already good load. Have you loaded and fired factory ammunition in the rifle? If so, are all your fingers still intact? Good. That means you can load to book OAL. That is the best place to start. At less than book max loads, it is possible to seat slightly deeper - a very few thous at a time, not half inches - to see if a good load gets better. And, once you have mastered measuring your chamber to throat dimension, you can creep, crawl, slowly towards that length, again as long as you are not at or beyond book max, and not experiencing any "traditional" pressure signs.

Too many experts on youtube! They make an article of faith from an occasionally successful practice.
 
You are using the Hornady bullet comparator in conjunction with the OAL gauge correct?
Then your measurements should be indicated as base to ogive not as Overall Length.

Are you sure you are using the correct adapter for the caliber of bullet??
 
thump_rrr said:
You are using the Hornady bullet comparator in conjunction with the OAL gauge correct?
Then your measurements should be indicated as base to ogive not as Overall Length.

Are you sure you are using the correct adapter for the caliber of bullet??
Click to expand...

Yup, it's the Hornady bullet comparator with the Hornady OAL gauge -and I've just checked that all the measurements that I've written here have been base to ogive (although I hadn't been explicit about saying so).

And yup, it's the .223 adapter that I've been using successfully for several other .223 bullets.
 
Do the test the old fashioned way to see if the chamber throat is short or the tool is not working. Seat a bullet long and chamber it. Look for rifling marks on the ogive.
Seat another one deeper, and repeat, until , the bullets stop getting marked. That is the OAL that is just off the lands.

Seat the previous, marked bullets at that setting.
 
Some lee die sets will not seat 40 grain vmax and lower grains to the proper depth, I contacted lee they sent me a modified part for seating these smaller bullets the set of dies in question was there RGB dies in 223 Remington. You can not simply screw the die in further.

This is what the new pin looks like

 
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