The Lee FCD is fantastic, but most seating dies can apply a crimp.
Problems reloading .300WSM
- Thread starter Chuckbuster
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The Lee FCD is fantastic, but most seating dies can apply a crimp.
The Lee FCD won't help you here. I's made to crimp to factory standard, so to the exact diameter of the bullet, not the diameter of the grove. I have one for every calibre that I reload, and they're really great, but they're not made for what you're trying to do.
I have 200grn Barnes LRX, which have a similar construction as the TSX, with grooves (not the best bullet for 300wsm btw, but that's another story), and I crimp them just deep enough to not see any groove.
You don't really have a choice:
1-Loose bullet: that's a big nono. At best your accuracy will suck, like Maple Leafs in playoff sucks;
2-Long OAL: If you try to crimp with an OAL so long that one groove is outside the case, your bullet won't fit any mag or chamber. You can make a dummy round and try it, and if it works, keep it that way, but I doubt that the bullet won't bite the rifling. Heck, doubt it'll fit in the magazine unless you're using a long action magazine;
3-Your only option left is shorter OAL. Just make sure you work up the load from minimum and stop when you reach maximum velocity for your load.
I've varied the OAL from 2.790'' to 2.835'' in 300wsm and I've seen little difference in velocity. What's your OAL with the bullet seated just deep enough to crimp above the groove?
Chuckbuster
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Right now, I'm trying 62gr of RL19 for this load, which is the Barnes #4 minimum. Crimped above the groove, the cartridge measures 2.795".
Chuckbuster
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
This is brand new brass that I ran through the sizer to make sure all necks were round. It has been my standard practice for years.
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An oversized sizer button would explain both problems... loose bullets and it is pulling out the neck on extraction causing stiff bolt-close. Pull the rod an mic the button, if necessary, chuck it in a drill and take it down with emery paper... a polishing wouldn't hurt either.
I'm not familiar with RL19, but if you are using the minimum load with an OAL so close to the book, your velocity and pressure should also be close to the book values. You might not get the best accuracy because the bullet isn't so close to the rifling, but as far as safety goes, you're good to go.
A friend of ours is having 'fun' reloading for his browning blr in 300 wsm.
Rough, 'tight' cycling & binding in the chamber are the complaints we have been hearing about reloaded wsm rounds even the full length resized ones.
We owned several blrs over the years and the chambers were 'snug' requiring full length resizing of reloaded ammo even in standard calibers.
I guess we can add that to the list of disadvantages of the WSM cartridges besides sacrificing a round in most box magazines.
The advantages of the WSM cartridges are usually a shorter receiver, shorter bolt throw and lever stroke in a levergun and a significantly lighter gun.
The short action 300 wsm blr is over 2" shorter and a pound lighter than its 300 win mag counterpart and has a shorter bolt stroke and lever throw.
Rough, 'tight' cycling & binding in the chamber are the complaints we have been hearing about reloaded wsm rounds even the full length resized ones.
We owned several blrs over the years and the chambers were 'snug' requiring full length resizing of reloaded ammo even in standard calibers.
I guess we can add that to the list of disadvantages of the WSM cartridges besides sacrificing a round in most box magazines.
The advantages of the WSM cartridges are usually a shorter receiver, shorter bolt throw and lever stroke in a levergun and a significantly lighter gun.
The short action 300 wsm blr is over 2" shorter and a pound lighter than its 300 win mag counterpart and has a shorter bolt stroke and lever throw.
Don't do that, you'll ruin a perfectly good sizer button. First problem has been solved and second is a feature of the bullet used.
Cameron SS
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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I would have been surprised in case trimming was part of the problem.
I have been reloading 300 WSM for about 9 years now, with about 4k rounds reloaded. I have used Winchester and federal brass, both factory once fired (in my gun) and virgin. I have found that 300 wsm brass really tends to flow and get longer. With a new batch of brass its not uncommon to see 0.007 to 0.010" stretch every firing for the first few firings. When I measured my chamber, I realized that the throat was full a 0.020 longer than the 2.100 rimming maximum. After that, I would just trim a batch once to keep the same, and then just let go untrimmed. I do inspect the length over the life of the brass to ensure that they don't pass the maximum for my chamber, but usually after 2-3 firings the growth drops off to NIL.
Unless you have a customer chamber, its highly unlikely that virgin brass would be so out of spec as to cause a difficult bolt close, especially without a bullet seated in the case.
This is how I set up all of my full length sizing dies, regardless of calibre of die manufacturer. I always thought it was pretty standard.
I have no experience with cannelured bullets in 300 wsm, but I have loaded millions for my AR. IN my experience if the bullet is designed to be crimped, you should crimp. The alternatives to get good performance usually involve something fancy.
Speaking of something fancy, you have a 4th option. You can get a redding competition bushing f/l sizing die. This bushing die works without an expander ball, and allows you to control how much the neck is being sized down. A typical die will over size it to too small for what you need, and then the expander ball brings it back up to required. A bushing die will just size it down to what is needed. You can get different diameter bushings, and so rather than crimping, you can just use a tighter bushing that will apply an equal amount of neck tension along the full bearing surface length, rather than just at the edge/crimp. The bushing dies significantly reduce the amount of sizing work done the brass, and will probably extend your case life by at least 1 or 2 firings. Pays for itself quite quickly if you shoot enough.
If you want to seat in/out, My instinct is always to seat further out, and closer to the rifling. But unless you have a custom chamber, chances are you won't be able to get close to your rifling without exceeding the maximum OAL for your magazine. So measure your magazine to see what your true overall length is. Or take your round as is, put in the mag, and measure the gap between bullet tip and inside of magazine, to see how much room you have left to play with. If you are just target shooting, you can simply single load. For hunting, you will want to maintain at least 0.010" clearance so that the bullets don't bind in magazine if you need a quick follow up shot.
Case trimming was also a standard step in our reloading cycle back when we reloaded.
Brass flow was more evident in some calibres and loads than others.
With near max and max loads in bottleneck cases significantly 'over bore' like the 264 win mag we'd get brass shavings under the case trimmer cutter head just about every time.
With 45-70 and suchlike very little brass flow was evident.
The wsms are over bore on steroids.
Brass flow was more evident in some calibres and loads than others.
With near max and max loads in bottleneck cases significantly 'over bore' like the 264 win mag we'd get brass shavings under the case trimmer cutter head just about every time.
With 45-70 and suchlike very little brass flow was evident.
The wsms are over bore on steroids.
Chuckbuster
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Yes, quite correct; the first problem has been satisfactorily resolved and resized cases and dummies chamber and eject just fine. The current issue is unique to the TSX with it's relief grooves cut into the bullets...simply put, the bullet is too skinny (too small in terms of diameter) in the grooves to be firmly gripped by the case mouth if I wish to seat to recommended OAL.
Chuckbuster
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Yes, they may have quirks and shortcomings (as do we all!), but my x-bolt is a nice handling little rifle with a quick and short bolt throw...I'd like to use it while afield in case we run into a calf...even though my hunting time is limited, and a calf is most likely to be encountered incidentally while grouse hunting. Still, I'd like to be able to throw a good bullet at one should that elusive opportunity arise.
Yes, and the groves in the TSX are NOT crimp cannelures. If there was any way to crimp in those groves, the brass would be ruined when the bullet comes out of the case. From what I understand, the groves are made to make the bullet longer for the same weight. In theory, it should increase the G7 BC.
Your OAL of 2.795 should fit into any rifle and give you velocity/pressure similar to what's in the book, all else being equal. The difference of 0.03'' is meaningless on pressure. It's 0.0022 cubic inches of volume on a bullet of diameter 308, so less than 1% of the case capacity. Much less. Brass of different headstamps might have more variance then that in their case capacity.
I'll stick with the standards like the 30-30, 03, 08, 06, 7mm rem & 300 win mags.
We're in the middle of a wsm fad.
I remember the high velocity and belted magnum fads of the past.
The standards will still be around when the wsm calibers are long forgotten & obsolete like the other fads.
Chuckbuster
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Well, that may very well be the case. However, it's something a little bit different in a package that I like...and what is life without a little variety...? And, I do see a couple of belted magnums, survivors of the belted magnum heyday in your list, so...it appears that you like a little variety as well...
So, basically, your answer for his reloading problems is to dump his rifle?
Chuckbuster
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Yes, that is my understanding as well with regard to the grooves, that and they are supposed to give the copper somewhere to flow during firing.
Ah! I see you have provided an answer to that niggling little voice in my head about seating the bullet just above the first groove. I also note that you stated previously that you have seated the TSXs to about the same depth, and presumably without issue, as I suspect you would have let us know if it was an issue! Thanks for the info, it is much appreciated.
I've had trouble with TSXs being loose in the necks on numerous cartridges before. (.257 Weatherby, 7mm STW, .300 Win, .375 H&H, .416 Rigby and probably some others I've forgotten.) In every instance the cure was the same, take a thou off the expander ball. Expander balls are cheap. Fixing inadequate neck tension with a crimp is a band-aid at best.
Hoyt tends to know what he's talking about.
My bullets are LRX, which are very similar to the TSX. I have 7mm TSX and TTSX in various weights too. Pretty much all the same construction (full copper with groves), except some have polymer tips and others don't. All of them need to be crimped right above the first grove.
I have 200grn LRX and another weight, lower, can't remember which one. 168grn TTSX I think, but not sure. I'm mostly playing with cheap campros these days for plinking fun so I'm not sure what I have in inventory, but I've used the 200grn and the [168grn]. Both do fine, but 200grn is pushing it in a 300wsm, it goes down quite low in the case, which is not ideal. These long, heavy bullets are more suited to 300WM than 300WSM in my opinion. The 180grn that you have are a better option imho. With that bullet in that rifle, you can take any north-american game at a distance where it makes sense to shoot.
