Problems with my new 22-250 AI

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dfrombc

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I just recently purchased a 22-250 AI off of the EE. Its built on a Stevens action and has a 26" Shilen Match select barrel. I assume it is a pre fit. The gun came with some formed brass and some 22-250 brass ready to be formed. The formed brass will chamber just fine but the regular stuff will not chamber at all ( all winchester brass). I shot a box of winchester factory 22-250 in the rifle without a hitch.

So I decided to just scrap the winchester brass and get some Lapua. The unformed brass will chamber but it is very hard to close the bolt. I fire formed a few rounds and they are still hard to close the bolt on after forming. I went out on a limb and neck turned a piece thinking I may have a tight neck chamber. There is 5-6 thou difference between the fired case and the turned and sized one. The turned case is still hard to chamber.
My OAL on the formed, sized and turned case is 1.892" as per the Nosler manual I have.

This is my first attempt at anything "improved". What am I missing? Any Ideas would be greatly appreciated.
 
Sounds like head spacing may be a touch tight for Lapua brass and you may need to back off the barrel a very small amount. But before you play with this try the following first.

Take a close look a the brass ready to be formed. If you see a little bump near the shoulder of the case the previous owner attempted to create a false shoulder. This is a good thing and will help ensure positive ignition and keep the brass flow to the minimum (IMO a good practice). WW brass is good brass and once fire formed should provide good life with moderate loads. All you need to do with the pre form brass is to run it in your 22-250 FL die just enough to chamber and no more. If you max out with your die without luck then you need to adjust headspace.

Lapua brass is thicker and may need to be adjusted to your chamber. Again, FL size slowly in small increments until the brass chambers with a little resistance. If it doesnt chamber when the die is maxed then adjust headspace.

One other area to look at is case OAl. It may be short in the chamber but really unlikely. Try blackening with a sharpie and see where the brass is touching when chambered. I found a short prefit like that once and had to trim to ensure I was not crimping bullets upon chambering. Best of luck.
Once there fire away. Elky....
 
Thank you elky for the advice. To clarify, do you mean I should run the brass through a 22-250 die or my 22-250AI die? I have the AI set that came with the gun but no regular 22-250 dies. If so I'll run out to wholesale and grab one. Guess I should invest in a barrel wrench if I'm gonna be playin with this savage stuff.
 
Now that you have the barrel nut bug...you'll find that barrel nut wrench is a must. Also I would advise in a bench barrel vice (chat with gunrunner8, been using his for years and it works flawlessly without scratching your barrels). Using sized brass to headspace is a finess thing and you will need to hone up your skills to be comfortable in that practice. You may want to seek advice and be guided by a knowlegable hand in your area. Once you get the feel of it your barrel managment is a 15 minute project. If you are not comfortable in that then it is prudent to invest in a headspace guage and learn how to use them properly under the advice of a gunsmith.

As for the die on unformed brass I would use the standard 22-250 FL die for prepping brass. Creating a false shoulder entails sizing up the neck a bit (ie 243 expander) and then sizing down with your standard die to leave a little bump just enough to create resistance when chambering...not exact science, but a trial by error thing.

For fire formed brass. You may find that after 3 or 4 firings you will need to bump the brass to get them to chamber easily. Check to see if your 22-250AI die will bump the shoulder enough. If it doesnt then you may need to either manage the headspace or hone down your shell holder a bit so that the die runs deeper. If the die doesnt resize enough then look for a shoulder bump die before playing with headspace. See Jerry at mystic about advice for a shoulder bump tool.

My two bits. Hope all this helps out. Be careful and take your time....it is part of the process of wildcatting....theraputic really:)
 
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Thanks again. I'm headed out right now to find a 22-250 die set. It looks like you and I live in the same place, you'll have to let me buy you a beer for the help!
 
Well the new die seemed to solve the problem with the Winchester brass but not the lapua. If I adjust the headspace for the lapua brass would it end up being too much for the Winchester brass?
 
You can tailor the die to the brass. Just lower the die in small increments and set it for Win. Then do the same for Lapua. Do not mix and match. Always try to stick to one variable at a time. This should solve the problem for you. Good luck.
 
I ran into the shell holder before before I could get the lapua brass to chamber easily. When I measured the rim thickness o the two types of brass there was about 8 thou difference. Out of curiosity I put 2 pieces of clear tape on the back of the win case (happened to add about 7 thou to it) and it was difficult to chamber as well. I assume the difference in thickness is the reason for the lapua brass being hard to chamber. I'll just run the Winchester until it wears out of the barrel is done. Thanks again for the advice. The offer for that beer is good anytime. Shoot me a PM if your so inclined some day.
 
You need to be using a gauge to set up headspace rather than brass. If the chamber is correctly set up the go gauge (minimum chamber length) of the parent cartridge is the AI no go gauge. Ackley designed the chamber so that the parent cartridge will automatically head space on the shoulder so seating the bullet into the lands is not required and neither is creating a false shoulder. Because of this cartridges for fire forming will naturally chamber hard.

As mentioned you may need to bump back the shoulder on the formed brass to get it to chamber after a few firings.

On a rechamber to AI if the barrel was not reset correctly the chamber likely has excess headspace, you can still form the brass to match by seating the bullet into the lands, but it is not the AI chamber as designed by Ackley. Thickness of the rim should not make a difference as the overall headspace should remain the same.

Firing a full patch (max) parent cartridge is advised to ensure the shoulder forms correctly especially with the 40 degree shoulder versions. Chamber pressures will be lower due to the increased case volume. I have found the accuracy with the case forming loads to be as good as the AI loads on my 6mm and .22-250 improved.


Dan
 
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I have two Stevens 200 rifles and and Dan B above is 110% correct, if you go to http://www.savageshooters.com/forum.php you will see that many people set their headspace using a new unfired case. The problem with setting your headspace with a new unfired case is new cases are shorter than a GO gauge. I have new cases that are .009 shorter in cartridge headspace (shoulder location) than a GO gauge.

When headspace is set using a cartridge case, the next posting you see is this person crying because his resized cases will not fit his chamber and the bolt is hard to close or will not close at all. Due to variations in dies and chambers you are better off setting your headspace .001 or .002 longer than the go gauge and this will not hurt anything. When the headspace is adjusted this way all that is need is proper die setup for the correct shoulder bump to chamber the round.

You can verify and check for this by inserting a .002 to .004 feeler gauge between the bottom of the case and the shell holder. When full length resized with the case raised in the shell holder with the feeler gauge the shoulder of the case will be bumped back by the same thickness as the feeler gauge.

If you do not have the tools to readjust your headspace you can make a "special" shell holder by lapping the top of the shell holder and removing the same amount as the feeler gauge that let your case chamber.

I would recommend getting the Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge to measure your fired cases and setting up your dies for the correct shoulder bump.



Also a custom shell holder set from Redding comes with shell holders that are .002, .004, .006, .008 and .010 longer for adjusting cartridge headspace or shoulder bump when resizing.



 
Thanks Dan,
I had read that the fire forming loads should be hard to chamber. The Lapua brass will chamber but the bolt is stiff to close and open. I was fire forming with unique powder and cream of wheat. It seems to work very well. I never did form a false shoulder as the Lee set I picked up doesn't have a removable expander. I ended up with brass that looks the same as the factory 22-250 I ran through the gun. I figured that after the Lapua brass was formed that it would be easier to chamber but its feels about the same as the parent case. The only difference I can spot / measure between the two cases is the rim thickness.

I appreciate all the advice. It's nice to have a resource like this to get some info from experienced reloaders.
 
If you have some fire formed lapua now, try your FL AI die. It may be able to bump back the shoulder enough for easy chamber. Give it a try and let us know.

PS, an old school method for sizing up may be to run it into a 243 die just enough to expand the neck. May be worth a try down the road if you have one kicking around.
 
No luck with the lapua brass and 22-250 AI die. It chambers but I'm forcing it more that I think I should be. If I wan to run lapua brass I'll have to start hunting for a barrel wrench and vice I guess. At least I have brass to play with for now.
 
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