Progressive for Rifle?

[Mike_R]

Hi all,

I am looking into reloading .223 and 9mm, and have a few questions. I have been researching reloading for some time now, but I have no experience actually doing it, so my theory may be a little off.

The big question that is holding up my press purchase is; I have read that after resizing, I will have to put my brass back into the tumbler to remove the resizing lube from the cases. Does that not defeat the purpose of a progressive press? If I have to remove the cases from the press in the middle of the operation and tumble them, then a turret press (or single stage) would be just as good, would it not? I have read that many people just wipe the completed rounds with a rag to remove the residue, but I am a bit of a stickler, and would likely want to tumble to be sure anyway, and this way the inside of the case is clean as well.

I want a progressive, but not if I can't use it as a progressive without sacrificing too much.

I was looking at the lyman turret press, and it looks good. Any one have any experience with it? There is a kit at Cabela's for $360 with a digital scale, #55 powder measure, the 6 turret press, and a case trimmer. Seems like a good deal to me. I have hear a lot about RCBS, Lee, Dillon, and Hornady, but very little about Lyman. Why is that?

Thank for the advice, I hope to get this straightened out soon, so I can buy a press next week. The wife and I are on holidays, and we are taking day trips all over!

Mike

 

[Jarlath]

First off you can tumble .223 after crimp to remove excess case lube from the outside. I have done it as have many many others.

Also a Turret is not a Progressive. (Just a quip )
Turret Press - rotates dies sequentially over a single case. One action (die) performed at a time.
Progressive Press - rotates several cases sequentially under multiple dies. Multiple actions (dies) performed at a time.

I only have experience with Lee Progressives.

.223, FL resizer, use spray lube on a cookie tray. Spray so that lube cannot enter case necks. Carbide dies. That way no powder contamination. Tumble after.

Otherwise no issues..

 

[Mike_R]

First off you can tumble .223 after crimp to remove excess case lube from the outside. I have done it as have many many others.

Are you saying that I can tumble a completed round?? My tumbler says specifically not to tumble live rounds, but I know all about liability issues and equipment manufactures.

I looked back at my post, and maybe I did not explain it very well, I do know the difference between a turret and a progressive. The concern is that if I have to remove the brass from the progressive press, after the resizing operation but before the powder drop and bullet seat, to remove the resizing lube would defeat the purpose of having multiple casings going around under multiple dies at the same time. If that is in fact the best way to do it (removing the case while in the progressive), then I will buy a turret press, and just do the steps one at a time, tumbling when required.

Is it true that with Carbide dies you do not need resizing lube?? Or is this just a marketing myth like lithium ion batteries not developing a memory? Can I get full length sizing dies in carbide for .223?

Thank you Jarlath, for raising the carbide question!

Mike

 

[t-star]

i've got the lee 1000 in 223- never had a problem with it, and just use something like hornady one-shot for lube- other than that, a quick roll in a towel

 

[Jarlath]

Are you saying that I can tumble a completed round?? My tumbler says specifically not to tumble live rounds, but I know all about liability issues and equipment manufactures.

Honestly, I've tumbled 50-100 live .223 in my tumbler. No issues. Impact of a tip on a primer in a vibrationary tumbler is virtually nil. It is a product liability thing in the >< miniscule chance that it could go off. I have sheared/crushed primers and unless you strike them, I have not seen one go off.

Is it true that with Carbide dies you do not need resizing lube?? Or is this just a marketing myth like lithium ion batteries not developing a memory? Can I get full length sizing dies in carbide for .223?

Thank you Jarlath, for raising the carbide question!

Mike

You can get Carbide dies for pretty much any calibre (Hell even a short pistol case like a 9mm can get carbide dies) and it is true that carbide dies greatly lessen the "grip" of dies against the brass, they still have some. Full length sizing 300 Win Mag Brass with Carbides, I would still use lube, just less of it. For 9mm? and most shorter straightwall brass? No lube required.
I would still use a slight bit of lube with carbides only no where near as much. Maybe every 10th round has a bit of lube? If you are neck sizing only then Lube is pretty minimal.

 

[cueball]

tumble

IIRC the reason not to tumble rifle rounds is that the vibrations could alter the coating on the granules hence changing the burn rate. i use a dillon 550 for all my rifle loading, just use rcbs case pad lube, washes off with water once you are done i lube a bunch up and then keep em in a tray, i can load 350-400/hr no prob.
cueball

 

[maynard]

If you want to load your .223 for long range shooting a single stage is the way to go. If you want to load tons of .223 to blast through an AR at ranges out to 500 yards and use the same press to load pistol, a progressive is the way to go.
Bottle neck cases require lube even when using carbide dies, straight wall pistol cases do not.
I have a Dillon 550 sitting on the end of my loading bench collecting dust. I don't load for pistol and found I was using the 550 as a single stage press. Since buying a Redding Big Boss single stage I haven't touched the 550. All my loading is done on a single stage and every charge is weighed. I shoot long range so consistancy is required.

Now, since you are on holidays and day trip to Cabella's sounds like a plan.

 

[Mike_R]

Thanks for the great information guys, I think I know what I need now. Everything! A progressive and a turret press!

I think I will avoid tumbling live rounds, just in case it does mess up the powder in some way. I can clean them off later with a towel if need be, but I think my first press is going to be a turret press.

So I should get carbide dies for the 9mm for sure, and for the .223 at least I will need less lube, and less mess that way.

So anyone have experience with the lyman turret presses? I think Cabela's is happening next week for sure, but I will have to make sure they stock the press kits. I noticed on their website it mentions that you can order and save shipping by having your order sent to the store directly for pick up. I think I will call them and see if they have any stock on loading presses and kits.

Thanks again,
Mike

 

[maynard]

The nice thing about Cabela's is they have a good selection of presses all out where you can compare them. A couple years ago I bought a press from Sinclair's while I was at Camp Perry. My mind was made up to buy a RCBS Rock Chucker before I even left home. Once I got there they had a Redding Big Boss right beside it and on sale for $10 less then the Rock Chucker. Hey $10 bucks is $10 bucks, I think I got the better press for less money.
The only advantage I can see with a turret press is you don't have to unscrew your dies when you change operations. With the lock ring on the dies anyway, once you have them set up it only takes a second to screw one out and screw the next one in. If you are working in small lots 20-100 rounds at a time, a turret press will work just fine. When I reload I work 1000-1600 rounds at a time so there is no real advantage over a plain old single stage, you just don't do them all in one sitting.

 

[kombayotch]

Buy a Dillon and only cry once. Even, with having to remove the brass for trimming, its still way faster with the progressive. I use my Dillon 550 for 308 Win, out to 1000 yards.

I have two heads setup for the process:

Tumble to clean, lube cases with Hornady One Shot so that the lube DOES get the inside of the necks.

Head#1:
-Resize/deprime with Redding Type-S FL die (neck expander removed)
-Expand neck with Sinclair mandrel

Trim, clean primer pockets, tumble clean.

Head#2
-Prime case
-Powder funnel die to charge case (Chargemaster -> verify with beam scale)
-Powder check die (can't be too careful!)
-Redding competition bullet seater

Others have different methods: http://home.comcast.net/~davidawilson/LongRange/LR_Handloading.htm

Don't let anyone tell you the progressive won't be accurate for long range. David Tubb reloads exclusively on a Dillon progressive, that says it all.

 

[greentips]

I use a Dillion 550 and the whole setup is mechanized. I bought the big motor case trimmer with the resizing die - resizing and trimming are done in one step. We prep a lot of brass in one shot and run them through the tumbler like a factory.

Then we swap the head out and do the priming, charging, seating and crimping like the way we run pistol rounds. The extra step is the case prep, which cannot be run together with the rest.