Proposed Production Rule

Walter Hornby said:
well i am willing to bet that if we get a round limit in production we will see one in open and standard within three years so that we can make it more interesting by having mag changes.
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Don't we have that now with the 170mm for Open and the box for Standard? At least 15 makes us all the same. It doesn't need us to spend money on new mags or mag mods.



beltfed said:
Sure, the minimum limit is 9x19mm for a pistol cartridge and a PF of 125. What would happen if they just dictated a PF of 125 with no limitation of the cartridge caliber?
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Dunno fer sure but my guess is all 9mm guns would become obsolete real soon as every one jumped to the lower calibers with smaller cases but more capacity.

BTW I live in HK so my thinking is influenced by the evil Vince Pinto!

:D
 
pokpok1964 said:
Don't we have that now with the 170mm for Open and the box for Standard? At least 15 makes us all the same. It doesn't need us to spend money on new mags or mag mods.
:D
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At one point there was talk of forcing mandatory reloads for Open and Standard somewhere in the course of fire. ie in a 32 round course of fire, an Open Gun would be forced to make 2 reloads somewhere through the course of fire.

IMO this fairness takes away from the fun. I just shot the USPSA Open Nationals, and shot several stages where I didn't need to reload. Running through a course of fire without having to do a mag change makes it so much more fun, especially on big shooting while moving courses.
 
right now the difference is we usual a physical limitation rather then an arbitrary number. When i started shooting IPSC in the mid 90's double stack mags were considered to finicky to be reliable for IPSC and just a passing fad (so i bought an open 45.) today everyone shoots double stacks so who is to say that some genius won't one day design a reliable triple stack mag to fit in the box or be 170 mm?
 
I left ipsc when they went to only 8 rounds for a 1911, and i had gone out and brought 7 mags that hold 10 each, not they ae useless to me. Thanks ipsc
 
euxx said:
Huh? We have 10 round mags here in Canada. How 15 makes us the same?
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What I mean is a fixed number just needs counting not spending more and more money on the latest mag where you can squeeze in one more round. I mainly shoot airsoft here becoz real gun shooting is so expensive and even we airsoft guys have an 18 pellet loaded limit.
 
TGC said:
I left ipsc when they went to only 8 rounds for a 1911, and i had gone out and brought 7 mags that hold 10 each, not they ae useless to me. Thanks ipsc
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Heh....they're talking about getting rid of Modified Division so they can bring back Single Stack. I hope you didn't get rid of those 8 rounders...
 
Canuck44 said:
In time I believe Tupperware guns will dominate IPSC Production as they now do in IDPA amongst the top shooters.
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Not a Chance - the weaknesses of the Glock design (crap trigger, crap sights and LE Accuracy level) are far too prevalent in the "more pure shooting" challenge that IPSC offers.

You and I have both agreed that professional shooters are the worst indicator of how good a gun is - they are paid to do it, and could even shoot a Norinco to a championship.

Better to look at the Canadian Nationals - which has "Regular" folk shooting - Glock has placing well is the minority in the last four years.
Average shooters have long since figured out that a double-single action design is far superior to the squish of a glock.

Glocks finished first in the 2008 US Nationals Mens and Ladies divisions this year and IF David Sevigny ever shows up at the IPSC World Shoot we might see a change there too.
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David showed up at the World Shoot in Ecuador and was beaten by a CZ shooter - Adam Tyc, the same current World Champion Production Shooter.
Does anyone really believe the Glocks and M&P's are D/A guns?
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Nope - just uncompetitive ones. :D
 
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I'm totally for a "load 15 max" rule in Production division. One of the main reasons Production came about in the first place was precisely because back around 1994 with the introduction of the STI and SVI guns, Standard became uncompetitive using a roughly out-of-the-box gun. The STI and SVI guns and Para P16 held 16+ rounds of .40 and after that it was all custom 1911s.

One of the best things about Standard Division in Canada is precisely that actually, I can use my .40 P226 and be competitive.
 
p226 competitive with STI/SVI? Someone spiked your kool-aide, maybe an X-5.
A round count cap is assinine, the concept of the production division failed when people started replacing springs and doing trigger jobs, limiting the mags is not going to put an end to the "arms race" in production.
 
Madness said:
p226 competitive with STI/SVI? Someone spiked your kool-aide, maybe an X-5.
A round count cap is assinine, the concept of the production division failed when people started replacing springs and doing trigger jobs, limiting the mags is not going to put an end to the "arms race" in production.
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You are without question absolutely, unequivocally, categorically, dead balls on accurate correct.
 
I believe Adam Tyc stomped alot of people while he shot a Glock. If he had a Stock II which I believe has less capacity? many people would still get stomped. Increased capacity will always be an advantage at some point in a course, but I am still a firm believer in "it's the driver" theory. As far as capacity, well maybe consider flush fitting magazines, and no +capacity pads, and no mags aka CZ ones that are longer with the wrap around pad etc... I don't keep up on the production rules, as I never shoot the division, but I was a little pi##ed knowing what mods shooters do and are allowed to do with the gun, and when I was basically "restoring" a beat up old CZ and I had to remove the finish on the slide which was I believe Canadian tire rattle can stuff that my gun would not be production legal unless it was refinished by the factory, and it being bare was a no go as well. You can do a search and find my post on GV.
 
alphamike said:
I believe Adam Tyc stomped alot of people while he shot a Glock. If he had a Stock II which I believe has less capacity? many people would still get stomped. Increased capacity will always be an advantage at some point in a course, but I am still a firm believer in "it's the driver" theory. As far as capacity, well maybe consider flush fitting magazines, and no +capacity pads, and no mags aka CZ ones that are longer with the wrap around pad etc... I don't keep up on the production rules, as I never shoot the division, but I was a little pi##ed knowing what mods shooters do and are allowed to do with the gun, and when I was basically "restoring" a beat up old CZ and I had to remove the finish on the slide which was I believe Canadian tire rattle can stuff that my gun would not be production legal unless it was refinished by the factory, and it being bare was a no go as well. You can do a search and find my post on GV.
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May be I miss understood you because I'm french but Adam Tyc shoots a CZ. May be you were thinking about Dave Sevigny. He shoots a Glock and man can he shoots that gun! It's freakin unbelievable! But I do understand your point and I do agree with you that in the end, it's always the shooter who makes the difference, not the gun.
 
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