Prussian made blackpowder cartridge shotgun?

Brutus

Brutus

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I am presently just about to make a firm commitment on a 1890s era damascus barrelled hammer shotgun that takes a BP shotgun shell.
It was imported by the Charles Daly company.

I was wondering if anyone on this CGN forum would be in the know for the watermarks that would identify this as safe for roundball/pumpkin ball loads??

Cheers!
 
gunsaholic said:
Does it have stamped on it anywhere "not for ball"?
Click to expand...

Apparently, from what the vendor informed me, there are no such markings regarding ball, on the water table. He described various proof marks, and that's pretty much it. I think a few years back (2 IIRC) I asked them to measure the chokes, and it came out as closest to modified for this blackpowder 10 gauge. But it was built in a Prussian region.

curious here.......
 
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When I get my greedy paws on it Tacfoley, I'm going to take some pics of the watertable(??) for more detail.
Here is one of them, its a 10x10 gauge drilling with a 45-70 rifle barrel underneath. Of course the holy black only.
I just paid for it yesterday. Right now it sits in a gunvault in Texas, waiting for my import/export paperwork & pickup arrangements.

Cheers......
 
find some way of measuring the bore ahead of the forcing cone and also at the muzzle; that will tell you if the barrels are choked or not. The not for ball stamp was for british guns.

cheers mooncoon
 
'Poussie' is not a German term or word, and not French either. German for Prussia is Preussen. What is it that makes you think that this gun is 'Prussian'? Please excuse my iggerance, but many of the gunmakers in the eastern part of Germany were in and around Suhl and Zella-Mehlis, which were/are in Thruringia, and the gun should have more stamps on it than you could shake a stick at.

Also, 45-70 is an unusual calibre for a gun made in Germany, even something as Germanic as a drilling.

Crown over S = supplementary mark designating shotgun barrels [Schrott in German] - from 1891 - 1939.

Eagle over the English word 'Proof' is odd. I've never seen anything like that on a German-made gun.

All in all, a conundrum, Sir.

tac
 
This was information provided to me via the vendor over the phone and thier own advert'. Not my own words Tacfoley.
I found a similar drilling that went for auction on the internet. I was chambered in 10x12 gauge and 38-55.
One could assume these were made for an American market. Maybe.....

Cheers!
 
No such country as Prussia in the 1890's. The vendor a retailer? Sounds like he/they don't know exactly what it is either.
The Eagle over Proof sounds like it was in Britain at some time and proofed there. Just a guess though.
 
sunray said:
No such country as Prussia in the 1890's. The vendor a retailer? Sounds like he/they don't know exactly what it is either.
The Eagle over Proof sounds like it was in Britain at some time and proofed there. Just a guess though.
Click to expand...

The eagle of 'proof' is very odd. ANY gun made elsewhere and sold in the UK since around 1868, until the formation of the CIP organsiation, has had to be proofed before sale in either London or Birmingham, and an eagle [what kind of eagle?] over the word proof is NOT an acceptable mark for sale in UK. What is needed is a slection of GOOD images of the underneath of the barrels, showing all the stamps -there should be at least eight of one kind or another, and the same on the water table - the flat bit where the barrels close.

I'm thinking that this gun, with its profoundly American rifled barrel, was made for the USA, as was the other example in .38-55, a calibre that saw little acceptance anywhere else. After all, that's where it is is now, right?

My Can$0.02.

tac, stuck in UK

PS - tac is my name, foley is my surname - this site does not like gaps between words as members' names. ;=)
 
sunray said:
No such country as Prussia in the 1890's. The vendor a retailer? Sounds like he/they don't know exactly what it is either.
The Eagle over Proof sounds like it was in Britain at some time and proofed there. Just a guess though.
Click to expand...

I never said it was a country:

The Kingdom of Prussia (1701 - 1918): formed the elevation of Brandenburg-Prussia to a kingdom, this state went on to become the dominant state of the German Empire (1871-1918)

But clearly it was a Germanic region/state that existed in the 1890s.
 
I had a Belgian Cape rifle that was 12 ga x 9.3 x 57R.
It was registered as 38-55 and would chamber one easily. Danger there, potential to light up a .375 bullet into a .366 bore.
I got dies from C & H and re-formed brass from a long forgotten member on here.
But it was formed from 30-40 Krag brass; which I've a boat load of.
Should it help; I'm returning home in a day or so and I've a book of turn-of-the century European proof markings, majority Germanic.
Shoot me a PM if you still require assistance
Good luck and stay safe
Pay no mind to Sunray...he's a seagull, swoops in, squacks, drops a load and does not return
 
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The Belgian I had was marked for all the world like an English gun, 'Dominion' marked on the sight rib between the bbl's, 'Unique' on the side of the locks. It was a 'Doll's head' style too IIRC.
It was a Belgian Guild gun marked to slide into the English gun market I would imagine. Had the widest lands I've ever seen, 4 grooves which were the same width as the lands. The slug I used to measure the bore would roll maybe 3 times on a bench...,clunk, clunk...clunk; almost square, LOL.
Good luck, it looks like a fine piece.
 
The Belgian I had was marked for all the world like an English gun, 'Dominion' marked on the sight rib between the bbl's, 'Unique' on the side of the locks. It was a 'Doll's head' style too IIRC.
It was a Belgian Guild gun marked to slide into the English gun market I would imagine. Had the widest lands I've ever seen, 4 grooves which were the same width as the lands. The slug I used to measure the bore would roll maybe 3 times on a bench...,clunk, clunk...clunk; almost square, LOL.
Good luck, it looks like a fine piece.
 
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