Puma 454 modified feeding path

[Freyr_255]

So I picked up a Rossi Puma in 454 Casull last week and had some feeding issues with it. It fed 45 colt just fine but the 454 casull I loaded up to standard length using Lee 300gr FP bullets would not feed(no commercial ammo available locally). The bullet appeared to be too long and just jammed between the chamber and the guide rails below the bolt.

Now what I have done is ground back the guide rails a bit(and polished) to allow these bullets to feed and was wondering if grinding back the guide a bit more to allow longer cartridges to feed would cause any problems? It doesn't seem like it should and if I could get another 0.02-0.03" that would be huge in keeping chamber pressures down on hot loads as I plan to get this thing shooting to 45/70 levels.(for the skeptics see this guy who pulled it off in a 45 colt chambering: http://www.gunblast.com/Paco_Legacy_454.htm )

So, can anyone see a problem with doing this? I don't think it would affect the feeding of anything as in it's current configuration there are no issues with 45 colt. Any issues with seating the bullet further out other than feeding?

 

[Camp Cook]

Interesting I have never had any feeding issues with 45 Colt or 454 Casull in my Puma M92.

This fellow is the guru for the Puma M92 rifles he should be able to enlighten you on this issue.

h ttp://www.stevesguns.com/

CC

 

[Freyr_255]

Interesting I have never had any feeding issues with 45 Colt or 454 Casull in my Puma M92.

This fellow is the guru for the Puma M92 rifles he should be able to enlighten you on this issue.

h ttp://www.stevesguns.com/

CC

Thanks I'll check him out.

Really it almost looks like they used a 45 colt guide for the amount I had to shave off to get 454 casull to feed properly. That being said I'm glad it didn't feed at all from the factory as when modified it feeds slick as all hell and I have the option to modify it to feed any bullet. I also took the liberty of polishing the action while I had it apart but I think I missed something as with a shell loading I still get a slight hang up from something in the action. Possibly the ejector catching on something.

So just to clarify, you've never had a feeding issue with any bullet design seated to normal 454 COL?

 

[ckid]

I have a Puma in .45 Colt and have worked up some pretty decent loads with Lee 300 gr FP and H-110. They are based on an article written by Paco Kelly on Leverguns.com. I haven't had any feeding issues although we are talking slightly different guns.

I did a lot of slicking on mine and it cycles like greased lightning. Here are a few things you may have overlooked when you went through the process:

1) Lighten your ejector spring a touch. I can't recall how much I trimmed off mine but I did it gradually so I wouldn't end up with ejection issues.

2)Lighten the detent spring on the shell carrier, again done gradually and if I recall it didn't take much.

3) Remove some material from the "cocking" face of the hammer. The benefits of this are twofold... It takes less force to #### the hammer, and it removes the excessive "over cocking" which will keeps the sear and sear notch of the hammer from getting beat up during rapid fire.

All of the bearing surfaces in the mechanism were carefully polished as well.

 

[Freyr_255]

Ya I left the springs alone for the moment as I was going to try and find an aftermarket kit. Apparently the factory springs are too heavy and cause excessive wear(so I hear..). What I might do if I have it apart again in the near future is polish the crap out of the detent pin on the lifter which I didn't do the first time around. As it stands though she feels 20x better than factory.

I never heard of removing material from the hammer but I do see where it would be beneficial. I just polished it to a mirror and called it good. Easily rectified though with no disassembly.

What kind of loads have you worked up with H110? I was putting 29gr behind the 300gr FP based on mid range manual suggestions(28-30gr range, I split the difference). Felt pretty good and actually less kick than I was expecting out of this small of a gun. Got a bit of leading(not much) and I think that was due to the bullets being .452 and the bore being 0.453-ish. I've since polished my Lee sizer out to .4535 or so(maybe 0.454..haven't run anything through it since) and I think this will rectify that problem, in addition to feeding/sizing like greased butter now

*edit*

Just more info on where it feels sticky still. It only happens when a shell is being chambered and right after the cartridge comes into alignment with the bore(as in off the carrier and parallel to the chamber). Not sure where the hang up is. It doesn't prevent feeding, just makes it sticky if cycling gently. Actually...maybe it's the bottom rim catching on the guide rails a bit as they are slotted?

 

[ckid]

Hmmm....Not quite sure. The issue I was having was the last little bit as you closed the bolt, which was caused by the final compression of the ejector spring, hence the reduction of spring pressure.

I do not have my rifle handy, but have a look at the relation of the hammer nose on the bottom of the bolt. I am thinking it could be the extra pressure required to get the hammer nose over the "hump" on the bottom of the bolt....This would be the excessive "over cocking" I was referring to...

 

[Freyr_255]

Ok I was just playing with some 45 colt snap caps and it's definitely something the cartridge is hanging up on. A couple times it would compress the ejector almost the whole way before popping and chambering. So either it's hanging up in the chamber(which I don't think it is), the front corner on the guide rails, or it's something on the ejector catching on the casing(not sure...the front of the ejector is polished pretty good with no sharp edges ).

I do notice that the lifter causes some resistance when it drops back down as well. I'll have to remedy that next time I have it apart as it's not a huge deal to me. This is a bush gun, not a competition gun(but one always likes nice things... ).

 

[ckid]

Okay, it definitely sounds like something is catching where it shouldn't be. The ejector should not be compressing until the cartridge is fully seated in the chamber... Without actually looking at the gun, I am thinking you are on the right track about your feed rails...

 

[Freyr_255]

Ya I think it is the feed rails. I just played with a dummy 454 round I made up and it didn't seem to catch at all. So I think the sharper angle of the 45 colt at that particular point is causing them to catch the feed rails with the rim of the case and bind a bit. Now to see if I can remove those rails without dismantling the whole action....bloody things are a pain in the ass to put back together.(notably the ejector/lever/locking pin motion)

I'll play with it a bit more later as well...I'm supposed to be painting and if wifey gets home to me not finished....ya...I think we know where that will end up...

 

[Camp Cook]

So just to clarify, you've never had a feeding issue with any bullet design seated to normal 454 COL?

That is correct and I load from 200gr RNFP to 345gr WLNGC' 45 Colts to 240gr XTP-Mag's all the way up to 405gr WLNGC 454 Casulls and I have loaded most jacketed and hard cast gas checked wide meplat bullet designs in between these weights.

My issue is the front barrel band screw snapped the head off I have the new screw sitting on my desk I just can't seem to find the time to get the broken threaded end out.

CC

 

[Freyr_255]

That is correct and I load from 200gr RNFP to 345gr WLNGC' 45 Colts to 240gr XTP-Mag's all the way up to 405gr WLNGC 454 Casulls and I have loaded most jacketed and hard cast gas checked wide meplat bullet designs in between these weights.

My issue is the front barrel band screw snapped the head off I have the new screw sitting on my desk I just can't seem to find the time to get the broken threaded end out.

CC

This kind of reaffirms my suspicions that someone was dipping parts from the 45 colt bin...Ah well problem is solved either way and it gave me an excuse to take a grinding wheel to my gun.(how many of you just cringed? )

It also looks like the binding issue is a snap cap issue. Meaning I think I have a sharp corner digging into the aluminum as with brass casings nothing jams up.(so far)

Also a note one lengthening the opening to allow a longer COL: It looks like the limiting factor will be the clearance of the lifter assembly rather than the ability to chamber a round off the lifter. I think I might be able to get 0.01-0.02" out of it with a my fingers crossed and a golden horseshoe stuck up my ass.