Pump vs semi

I Dont Care About You said:
My biggest ##### with the semi's is the 5-round mag limit.
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What do you hunt?
- Migratory birds, you've got a 3 rounds limit (including the one in the chamber)
- Chasing birds and hares... I've had good luck with single-shots, O/U and SxS... so even with an old M50 (which only has a 2 rds mag tube), I've can't remember of a situation where I ran out of ammo trying to hunt something...

For plinking (or culling starling/pigeons) on the other hand :p
 
My favorite guns for hunting and clay busting have mainly been Rem 870's. I had a few Rem 1100 units that I used for skeet & quail yrs back which ran good and fit me well. Had a Mossberg 835 for a spell as well. The 870 is the one I go with the most.
 
sillymike said:
What do you hunt?
- Migratory birds, you've got a 3 rounds limit (including the one in the chamber)
- Chasing birds and hares... I've had good luck with single-shots, O/U and SxS... so even with an old M50 (which only has a 2 rds mag tube), I've can't remember of a situation where I ran out of ammo trying to hunt something...

For plinking (or culling starling/pigeons) on the other hand :p
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Those zombie targets are hard to kill, especially when you shoot as fast as possible and miss most of the time. We have slugs in the overhead baffles at our range, as a result of people shooting so fast, they can't keep on the target.
 
As others have said, different models/actions bring different things to the table. I don't have anything groundbreaking to add, but I'll chime in anyway. In my opinion;

*an American/Italian-made pump or semi should be considered almost equal in terms of reliability if maintained well, understanding that light loads/cycling semis will be a question mark until you try the gun...and not really counting Turkish guns which I have very little experience with

*a semi will usually gobble-up more recoil and give you faster follow-ups, which is why they're often favored by the migratory hunters. I'm a big guy, but 3.5 out of an 870 is not a bucket of fun. Haven't shot them much, but after shot #1 my eyes are watering and I'm wondering if my fillings are still in place. I wouldn't have much faith I could acquire a target quickly, I'm usually busy trying to regain my focus after making such a bad decision lol

*recoil-operated semis=covered already. My first SG was an inherited Remington 11-48, would cycle fine when I was using it...but it took a long time to realize why for allot of others, it would chamber the second round fine...but not always the third. I realized that after one shot, some new shooters tried to mitigate the recoil by NOT holding it into their shoulder tightly. Meant round #2 was chambered/ready after the first shot delivered more recoil than expected. FTE/jam would follow...and that semi got tons of TLC between trap days

*magazine capacity-not sure it was part of the original question, but magazine extensions are something I've thought allot about. I've gone to great lengths to source them and overspent on nice ones, but tend NOT to like shooting pumps that are wearing them. 99% of my shotgunning has been on clays, mostly trap. When you add a tube the balance/swing changes...and when you fill that tube, it changes allot. In fact, it can feel like an entirely different gun with so much more weight in a forward position.

For pumps, I like 870s more than 500s aesthetically, and from a tear-down/clean POV. I'm far more inclined to reach for a 500 due to the lower carry weight.
 
I've probably fired more rounds out of an Ithaca Model 37 in 16-gauge than from all other guns combined, so a pump action is hard to beat... But for me, the Browning Double Auto does it. Very well balanced, and as quick to reload as a double gun, if not quicker. The Browning DA will handle any 2 3/4" load without a hiccup. If you can't hit it in two, the third shot isn't going to help. The short-recoil action absorbs recoil well. Quite a brilliant design which doesn't get enough love, in my opinion.
 
I have the Beretta and a Benelli M2 , semi auto
For goose hunting
I prefer the Beretta for recoil .. both are top notch
Had rem 870 for many years and I would trust either of the semi's to a 870
They're that good nowadays
 
Hard to beat the Rem 870...the US military uses them...my brother carried one quite frequently on 5 tours in Iran and Afghanistan.
Then there are some very reliable semis out there too...many special forces groups have adopted the Benelli M4.
And there are thousands of hunters that carry pumps and semis afield every year.

Is the speed of your second shot important, or very important to you? (pumps are only marginally slower than semis)
Or is reliability more important?
Or is the recoil reduction you may get with the right type of semi auto system that is important?
In either case, fit should be at the top of your list, and you will need to handel a bunch to find the one that fits you best, or can be adjusted for fine tuning it to you.

It will come down to your preference and your wishlist vs needs list for what you end up buying.
Hard to go wrong in either case.
 
Yes, pump can be quite reliable, fire pretty much any kind of ammunition (from puff-stuff to full power load)... But...
- Someone has to train with them. As in, it's fairly easy to induce a jam by short-stroking the action... just like it's easy to miss a shot by forgetting to actually pump the gun...
 
BlackRam said:
Hard to beat the Rem 870...the US military uses them...my brother carried one quite frequently on 5 tours in Iran and Afghanistan.
Then there are some very reliable semis out there too...many special forces groups have adopted the Benelli M4.
And there are thousands of hunters that carry pumps and semis afield every year.

Is the speed of your second shot important, or very important to you? (pumps are only marginally slower than semis)
Or is reliability more important?
Or is the recoil reduction you may get with the right type of semi auto system that is important?
In either case, fit should be at the top of your list, and you will need to handel a bunch to find the one that fits you best, or can be adjusted for fine tuning it to you.

It will come down to your preference and your wishlist vs needs list for what you end up buying.
Hard to go wrong in either case.
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Nailed it!


I’d previously owned one… but my new 30” semi Beretta A400 Xcel trap gun arrived yesterday (mfg in 2020). The standard Beretta butt fits me absolutely perfectly and the kickoff anti recoil in the butt works. I know semi auto is taboo to trap traditionalists, but the trigger is fantastic, and a simple plastic shell catch attachment collects ejected shells by trapping the lip of the shell casing on your gun. Trigger, recoil reduction and a perfect fit for my face/shoulder/eye…. Its a huge win. Took it to the club tonight and hit my first 16 clays, then struggled to finish 19/25, which I then repeated…. I was thrilled…. As I only have time to shoot once every three weeks…. The only con was it didn’t come with a full choke tube… improved Modified was as tight as it got. Note… you can still buy fund this gun to buy new in Canada, but BerettaIMG_2275.jpg discontinued it…. Rumour is it’s replacement will arrive at the Shot Show innthe new year.


Pump Action
I also enjoy long hikes in the local mountains, the bad news is the bears are huge. I used to only carry bear spray, but I just added a Benelli SuperNova Tactical 14.5” gun with Challenger 2 3/4” 1 1/8 ounce slugs. I went with the Benelli pump because its well made and durable, that can take a little abuse as a bush gun. I have no expectation of ever having to fire it while out hiking…but my life depends on to work…. The barrel can handle anything including 3.5” rounds. I have no experience with cheaper options from Churchill or Canuck, but it came down to brand trust…. I trustvthe compact Benelli pump. It also rains a lot here, and so something unproven (about the only compact semi auto nonrestricted gun thats legal in Canada ) like the CANUCK FD12 BULLPUP SA 12GA/3" 20"/508MM 5RD AMBI FLIP-UP SIGHTS BLACK made no sense.
 

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YouAreInOilCountry said:
Nailed it!


I’d previously owned one… but my new 30” semi Beretta A400 Xcel trap gun arrived yesterday (mfg in 2020). The standard Beretta butt fits me absolutely perfectly and the kickoff anti recoil in the butt works. I know semi auto is taboo to trap traditionalists, but the trigger is fantastic, and a simple plastic shell catch attachment collects ejected shells by trapping the lip of the shell casing on your gun. Trigger, recoil reduction and a perfect fit for my face/shoulder/eye…. Its a huge win. Took it to the club tonight and hit my first 16 clays, then struggled to finish 19/25, which I then repeated…. I was thrilled…. As I only have time to shoot once every three weeks…. The only con was it didn’t come with a full choke tube… improved Modified was as tight as it got. Note… you can still buy fund this gun to buy new in Canada, but BerettaView attachment 702316 discontinued it…. Rumour is it’s replacement will arrive at the Shot Show innthe new year.


Pump Action
I also enjoy long hikes in the local mountains, the bad news is the bears are huge. I used to only carry bear spray, but I just added a Benelli SuperNova Tactical 14.5” gun with Challenger 2 3/4” 1 1/8 ounce slugs. I went with the Benelli pump because its well made and durable, that can take a little abuse as a bush gun. I have no expectation of ever having to fire it while out hiking…but my life depends on to work…. The barrel can handle anything including 3.5” rounds. I have no experience with cheaper options from Churchill or Canuck, but it came down to brand trust…. I trustvthe compact Benelli pump. It also rains a lot here, and so something unproven (about the only compact semi auto nonrestricted gun thats legal in Canada ) like the CANUCK FD12 BULLPUP SA 12GA/3" 20"/508MM 5RD AMBI FLIP-UP SIGHTS BLACK made no sense.
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Considering the progression of the sport started out with break actions it makes sense but then along came advancements in manufacturing making reliable affordable guns most could afford and the tarp and skeet games suddenly had a lot more interest from the working class. Pump guns started to dominate the game and going into the 60's semi-auto's, particularly the Remington 1100 started to be the mainstay of most shooters well into the 80's. What changed the game was the changing of traditional break action guns to be made where they could be adjusted to fit anyone, made with recoil absorbing devices and made to change point of impact. Something not easily accomplished on a semi due to it's design and by the time companies started to produce semi's of that nature imo it was too late. Most had made the switch to the traditional break actions once again. Add to that sporting clays and skeet enthusiasts can have one gun shoot all 4 gauges from the same gun due to the addition of full length sub-gauge tube sets. You cannot do that with a semi, you need to buy 4 different guns to accomplish that and in doing so you change balance and swing characteristics for each gun whereas with one tube set gun it can be set up to be identical no matter the gauge of tube set installed. There is still room for a semi in any gun safe and on any range, in the blind etc. and todays semi's manufactured by companies that have built good reputations on their products produce some of the most reliable semi's made today. I'll take a semi into the duck blind any day over a pump mainly because as I get older I appreciate the reduced felt recoil while shooting heavy field loads and I like having not to pump the gun for that second or third shot.
 
I appreciate your thoughtful reply.

My only interest is trap shooting so my A400 Xcel, and as I mentioned the standard Beretta butt fits me perfectly, is all I would ever want or need. It wasn’t cheap, a $2800 semi auto Beretta….$2940 tax in.

Our local range also only has trap houses, so I definitely will not get into any other shotgun sports. The little skeet shooting I have ever done, I didn’t like it at all.


I disagree about the common man accessibility of shotgun sports. The cost of ammo and clays has gone through the roof and is out of reach of most, who can barely afford rent in 2023. My local gun club went from literally dozens of shooters to only a handful. At our weekly shoot we will shoot only a couple of rounds…. We had six show up yesterday. I an lucky in that with the climate here we shoot 12 months a year.
 
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