- Location
- Vancouver Island
Yes, I'm new here... (certainly not going to make many retailer friends with this post)
This post will annoy some retailers in Canada (some simply won't care) and possibly some of the Site Sponsor retailer's. Not my intention but as a customer wanting to spend money, you should pay attention! I tried to support our Canadian shops but they make it really darn hard to do so!
For several weeks, I've searched in vain for the no longer produced Daisy (Avanti) 853C. The Daisy (no longer Avanti) 953 is the replacement with some significant changes to it. The best option that is still available appears to be the Daisy (Avanti) 753S (synthetic stock) or the Daisy (Avanti) 753W (hardwood stock), sometimes labelled as the "Elite" but it is the exact same rifle. The 753 series is not the same as the 853C but the differences are minimal as they both use the same Walther Lothar barrel and the majority of components. The 753 series has a slightly larger stock, is a single shot vs. a clip and the target sights are slightly different.
The inaccuracy of the information on retailer websites for the 753 series, 853 series and the 953 is absolutely ridiculous (Canada and the US). It baffles me how any company with an online presence and claiming to be even remotely knowledgeable in their product can have inaccuracies to the degree some of the companies have. Some sites don't have any information on the product at all??? How difficult is it to copy and paste the information from Daisy? that is not exactly rocket science!
I have scoured the Canadian retail scene and only a very few retailers have a 753S or 753W in stock. To some degree, I can understand there is not a large market for a 495fps pellet rifle in the several hundred dollar range. That said, this is the closest version of the 853C that is used by Cadets in the Marksmanship program across Canada. As a parent, with a Cadet in the program, talking to parents of Cadets in the program... there is a lot of interest from parents (in my area and I'm sure that follows suit across Canada) looking to acquire one of these firearms. We all want our young budding athlete's (Biathlon and Marksmanship) to get in some additional practice "trigger" time. At the Canadian prices being asked from retailers and stock levels as scant they are, I can see why retailers are not selling many (if any).
One supplier in BC (starts with a "D") has an out of stock listing for one and the price is clearly not current. While really personable, that retailer will be out of stock for 2-3 months and no mention of the new $ when they do get stock.
Other retailers in Canada:
$599 plus tax plus shipping (not in stock)
$555 plus tax plus $13 shipping (big "A" online shopping site from a new seller with no feedback and over a month shipping time... hmmmm)
$999 plus tax but free shipping (wow, free shipping...)
$691 plus plus (no stock)
$497 plus plus (sketchy looking website not sure of stock)
$740 plus plus (in stock!!!)
There's more but you get the idea! This is going to be well in excess of $500 by the time the dust settles!
At some point, I resorted to opening my search for a used 853C into websites and shops from the US. I was not crazy about the idea of getting this across the Border if I managed to find one and had friends on standby that could bring it across if I needed to go that route. Nothing in the used market south of the border either. The Daisy (Avanti) 753S can be found under $200US but response times on questions may be a bit slow. Yes! shipping, customs, etc. can be a nightmare but finding this in Canada at a "reasonable price and in stock" was certainly not working out either. So on the weekend, I connected with a US company that is clearly reputable and has this in stock on their website for $250US. Contacted them via email and questions were answered on a day they were closed for business which I found rather interesting. I make some additional calls to the RCMP and Canadian Customs during the week. I then contact this dealer in the US by phone to confirm some additional questions. Please note that they were $60US more than another supplier I had tried contacting the week prior. Their response times and knowledge was absolutely worth that additional $$$. So while I may be bashing on Canadian retailers, I hope they can see that there are people who will support a few additional $ for good service (in this situation, it was about a 30% increase over the lowest price I found). I placed the order, all taxes, shipping, brokerage and customs charges are clearly indicated before the final commitment to the purchase (they made this transaction really easy). After all costs, including a new member (free to join) discount it came to $317US ($420C according to my credit card receipt) for the rifle and a pair of shooting glasses I added in on a whim. Delivery to my door is 1-2 weeks, I ordered this yesterday afternoon and was given a shipping confirmation and tracking number today (less than 24hrs from time of order).
That rifle at $250US (free shipping in the US) with today's exchange rate is $321C... this is the retail price on this company's website. Clearly they are making money at that price as a retailer needs to make a minimum of 30% just to keep the doors open (I previously worked in high end retail for over 10 years). I paid $60US more than I found this for on another site... so they are easily making more than a 30% markup on this. They are probably buying this from Daisy for +/- $150US ($198C). Any reason a Canadian retailer cannot do the same??? Let's assume that a Canadian retailer purchases 5 of these for $1000C and ships them up. Shipping, brokerage, etc. get divided among them (the more you bring across in 1 shipment (does not need to be the same product, just the same shipment), the lower the average cost) so let's estimate that at $50C each (it should be less than that), so each rifle would have an estimated landed cost of $250C. We know that a retailer needs to make 30% to keep the doors open... so they would need to sell this for $325C at an absolute minimum. Clearly, nobody goes into business just to survive... a 60% markup (that's a healthy profit margin) puts this at $400C plus tax and shipping. Would I have paid that? WITHOUT QUESTION, YES! Am I willing to pay $500-$1000 plus tax plus shipping?!? NO! at that price, you are gouging!
Canadian retailers. Sort out your websites and your inventory (availability at the very least) and sort out your pricing (it's not about having the "lowest" price, a "reasonable" price is all that is required as long as you are engaged with your customer and knowledgeable on your product), You absolutely lost this sale and how many others??? I didn't want to buy from the US but you forced my hand and left me little other option!
Rant Over!
Feel free to comment, hate, love... etc.
This post will annoy some retailers in Canada (some simply won't care) and possibly some of the Site Sponsor retailer's. Not my intention but as a customer wanting to spend money, you should pay attention! I tried to support our Canadian shops but they make it really darn hard to do so!
For several weeks, I've searched in vain for the no longer produced Daisy (Avanti) 853C. The Daisy (no longer Avanti) 953 is the replacement with some significant changes to it. The best option that is still available appears to be the Daisy (Avanti) 753S (synthetic stock) or the Daisy (Avanti) 753W (hardwood stock), sometimes labelled as the "Elite" but it is the exact same rifle. The 753 series is not the same as the 853C but the differences are minimal as they both use the same Walther Lothar barrel and the majority of components. The 753 series has a slightly larger stock, is a single shot vs. a clip and the target sights are slightly different.
The inaccuracy of the information on retailer websites for the 753 series, 853 series and the 953 is absolutely ridiculous (Canada and the US). It baffles me how any company with an online presence and claiming to be even remotely knowledgeable in their product can have inaccuracies to the degree some of the companies have. Some sites don't have any information on the product at all??? How difficult is it to copy and paste the information from Daisy? that is not exactly rocket science!
I have scoured the Canadian retail scene and only a very few retailers have a 753S or 753W in stock. To some degree, I can understand there is not a large market for a 495fps pellet rifle in the several hundred dollar range. That said, this is the closest version of the 853C that is used by Cadets in the Marksmanship program across Canada. As a parent, with a Cadet in the program, talking to parents of Cadets in the program... there is a lot of interest from parents (in my area and I'm sure that follows suit across Canada) looking to acquire one of these firearms. We all want our young budding athlete's (Biathlon and Marksmanship) to get in some additional practice "trigger" time. At the Canadian prices being asked from retailers and stock levels as scant they are, I can see why retailers are not selling many (if any).
One supplier in BC (starts with a "D") has an out of stock listing for one and the price is clearly not current. While really personable, that retailer will be out of stock for 2-3 months and no mention of the new $ when they do get stock.
Other retailers in Canada:
$599 plus tax plus shipping (not in stock)
$555 plus tax plus $13 shipping (big "A" online shopping site from a new seller with no feedback and over a month shipping time... hmmmm)
$999 plus tax but free shipping (wow, free shipping...)
$691 plus plus (no stock)
$497 plus plus (sketchy looking website not sure of stock)
$740 plus plus (in stock!!!)
There's more but you get the idea! This is going to be well in excess of $500 by the time the dust settles!
At some point, I resorted to opening my search for a used 853C into websites and shops from the US. I was not crazy about the idea of getting this across the Border if I managed to find one and had friends on standby that could bring it across if I needed to go that route. Nothing in the used market south of the border either. The Daisy (Avanti) 753S can be found under $200US but response times on questions may be a bit slow. Yes! shipping, customs, etc. can be a nightmare but finding this in Canada at a "reasonable price and in stock" was certainly not working out either. So on the weekend, I connected with a US company that is clearly reputable and has this in stock on their website for $250US. Contacted them via email and questions were answered on a day they were closed for business which I found rather interesting. I make some additional calls to the RCMP and Canadian Customs during the week. I then contact this dealer in the US by phone to confirm some additional questions. Please note that they were $60US more than another supplier I had tried contacting the week prior. Their response times and knowledge was absolutely worth that additional $$$. So while I may be bashing on Canadian retailers, I hope they can see that there are people who will support a few additional $ for good service (in this situation, it was about a 30% increase over the lowest price I found). I placed the order, all taxes, shipping, brokerage and customs charges are clearly indicated before the final commitment to the purchase (they made this transaction really easy). After all costs, including a new member (free to join) discount it came to $317US ($420C according to my credit card receipt) for the rifle and a pair of shooting glasses I added in on a whim. Delivery to my door is 1-2 weeks, I ordered this yesterday afternoon and was given a shipping confirmation and tracking number today (less than 24hrs from time of order).
That rifle at $250US (free shipping in the US) with today's exchange rate is $321C... this is the retail price on this company's website. Clearly they are making money at that price as a retailer needs to make a minimum of 30% just to keep the doors open (I previously worked in high end retail for over 10 years). I paid $60US more than I found this for on another site... so they are easily making more than a 30% markup on this. They are probably buying this from Daisy for +/- $150US ($198C). Any reason a Canadian retailer cannot do the same??? Let's assume that a Canadian retailer purchases 5 of these for $1000C and ships them up. Shipping, brokerage, etc. get divided among them (the more you bring across in 1 shipment (does not need to be the same product, just the same shipment), the lower the average cost) so let's estimate that at $50C each (it should be less than that), so each rifle would have an estimated landed cost of $250C. We know that a retailer needs to make 30% to keep the doors open... so they would need to sell this for $325C at an absolute minimum. Clearly, nobody goes into business just to survive... a 60% markup (that's a healthy profit margin) puts this at $400C plus tax and shipping. Would I have paid that? WITHOUT QUESTION, YES! Am I willing to pay $500-$1000 plus tax plus shipping?!? NO! at that price, you are gouging!
Canadian retailers. Sort out your websites and your inventory (availability at the very least) and sort out your pricing (it's not about having the "lowest" price, a "reasonable" price is all that is required as long as you are engaged with your customer and knowledgeable on your product), You absolutely lost this sale and how many others??? I didn't want to buy from the US but you forced my hand and left me little other option!
Rant Over!
Feel free to comment, hate, love... etc.
.
