Pure lead powder coated boolits

[ChromeArty]

I just ordered some PC from Emerald Coatings... got home from the range today and went to clean my pistols and wow! What a PITA lead fouling is!! Maybe I didn't put enough Alox on the cast bullets...? ... I don't know, but I'm giving the bullets a little bath in gas to get the Alox off and Powder Coating them as soon as my stuff arrives!!

 

[sawzall]

I just ordered some PC from Emerald Coatings... got home from the range today and went to clean my pistols and wow! What a PITA lead fouling is!! Maybe I didn't put enough Alox on the cast bullets...? ... I don't know, but I'm giving the bullets a little bath in gas to get the Alox off and Powder Coating them as soon as my stuff arrives!!

As I posted a couple of times in your other thread, 9mm is tough to shoot lead out of without getting leading. High pressure, fast twist rifling and a case that can easily size down the base of the bullets when seating all add up to leading. Best results for me with lubed bullets is with a slow powder. I use Blue Dot. Also I expand the cases with the case mouth expander from my RCBS 357 / 38special "Cowboy " die set. It's very much the same as a Lyman "M" die and prevents the cases from squishing the base of the bullets dow. 9mm cases get thick real quick down the body. Powder coating is the only sure fire way I have succeeded in cast 9mm. Oh, and gas checked bullets with lube worked as well but I decided to not use the checks due to the hassle. I shoot too much 9mm to check all my boolits.

Oh, and gasoline will leave residue on your bullets. Boil them in soapy water when you take them out of the gasoline. Just don't use the wife's cooking pots!

 

[ChromeArty]

As I posted a couple of times in your other thread, 9mm is tough to shoot lead out of without getting leading. High pressure, fast twist rifling and a case that can easily size down the base of the bullets when seating all add up to leading. Best results for me with lubed bullets is with a slow powder. I use Blue Dot. Also I expand the cases with the case mouth expander from my RCBS 357 / 38special "Cowboy " die set. It's very much the same as a Lyman "M" die and prevents the cases from squishing the base of the bullets dow. 9mm cases get thick real quick down the body. Powder coating is the only sure fire way I have succeeded in cast 9mm. Oh, and gas checked bullets with lube worked as well but I decided to not use the checks due to the hassle. I shoot too much 9mm to check all my boolits.

Oh, and gasoline will leave residue on your bullets. Boil them in soapy water when you take them out of the gasoline. Just don't use the wife's cooking pots!

Hey Sawzall! Yes you did warn me... I guess I was hoping for a miracle and my barrels would nice and clean

Ugh, gas checking 9mm would be a nightmare! I also shoot way too much 9mm for that... Hence getting all geared up to be my own little 9mm factory in the first place!

I will give the boolits a little bubble bath at my outdoor Walmart heating element in my $0.50 pot from the second hand store ...

Can't wait to fire off some PC'd ammo and have a peek in the barrel!

Wish me luck!

 

[Canuck44]

As I posted a couple of times in your other thread, 9mm is tough to shoot lead out of without getting leading. High pressure, fast twist rifling and a case that can easily size down the base of the bullets when seating all add up to leading. Best results for me with lubed bullets is with a slow powder. I use Blue Dot. Also I expand the cases with the case mouth expander from my RCBS 357 / 38special "Cowboy " die set. It's very much the same as a Lyman "M" die and prevents the cases from squishing the base of the bullets dow. 9mm cases get thick real quick down the body. Powder coating is the only sure fire way I have succeeded in cast 9mm. Oh, and gas checked bullets with lube worked as well but I decided to not use the checks due to the hassle. I shoot too much 9mm to check all my boolits.

Oh, and gasoline will leave residue on your bullets. Boil them in soapy water when you take them out of the gasoline. Just don't use the wife's cooking pots!

I am sorry but I have to disagree completely. I water quench my cast 9MM bullets from the mold. Properly lubed, I use a lube I get from a small firm in the US or just make Felix Lube. Both are soft lubes. Either way I never see leading in any of my 9MM pistols or my twp 40 cal pistols. I have at last count either 8 or 9 of them. I don't get any leading in my CX 4 Storm either running velocities unchecked at 1300 fps. While increased bullet hardness is often as much a cause of leading as not, in the 9MM I believe it is best to use a harder alloy. WW alloy works air cooled. I just started dropping them in water from the mold about 12 years ago as a matter of convenience and have continued with it. The bullets are harder and they do seem to work. I size all my 9mm bullets .357.

The jury is out using PCing and the Hi-Tek method from Australia. I have had good success with no leading and no loss in accuracy with low pressure cartridges like my 38spl and 45acp. More issues with the 9MM but home made aluminum GC seen to solve the issue with leading. Whether the effort is worth it or not has yet to be determined. Since I don;t get leading using lubed 9MM bullets the only advantage I see in PCing bullets in the 9MM if there is a decided reduction in smoke. Shooting competitions outdoors on some stages and in some atmospheric conditions can be difficult if the smoke from the lube and powder hangs in front of you.

Powder coated bullets are the rage in Australia and seem to work quite well. There is no reason why they wont work here. Alloy seems to be the culprit with high pressure cartridges although I remain skeptical until I have eliminated all other variables. Getting the process right is the starting point, particularly with the HI-Tek product.

Take Care

Bob

 

[wbaad]

I love tool blue

Then there's dark blue, red & brown

Ruger RedHawk Loves Tool Blue.

Tumble the powder on?

 

[wbaad]

Tests by others have shown that water dropping is of no benefit to a bullet that is to be PC'd. The cooking temp of the pc process removes any tempering from the lead, returns it to almost original alloyed hardness (tested many times). To have a hard cast PC boolit the tin content must be present in the mix at time of casting. There seems to be mixed opinions by the "experts" as to weather a hard alloy is still needed for cast & pc'd boolits that will be driven at the upper range of cast velocities. Some have reported very good results with pure WW at over 2200 fps, some, and I don't remember the alloy content, but they rave about being able to shoot un-checked cast at 3200 fps with absolutely no leading. Personally I have only shot pure WW at up to 1700 with no leading.

Millions of pistol bullets with PC coating have been fired & satisfactorily tested so far but the higher velocity rifle stuff, with all its more complicated intricacy's is still basically in its infancy and being tested every day. Anything we can add or report on will be helpful so keep at'er boys.

Good to know about the annealing.
I prefer the water drop if nothing else to avoid too many hot items. I always manage to touch them somehow!

 

[Canuck44]

Fingers I an well aware that it does not help for PC'd bullets but it does for regular lubed bullets. Water quenching from the mold does increase the bullets hardness. Baking the bullets when you PC them does anneal the lead and if they air cool they will certainly be softer than they went into the oven. With PC bullets you are relying on the coating to act like a plating to prevent leading.

Take Care

Bob

 

[ChromeArty]

I am sorry but I have to disagree completely. I water quench my cast 9MM bullets from the mold. Properly lubed, I use a lube I get from a small firm in the US or just make Felix Lube. Both are soft lubes. Either way I never see leading in any of my 9MM pistols or my twp 40 cal pistols. I have at last count either 8 or 9 of them. I don't get any leading in my CX 4 Storm either running velocities unchecked at 1300 fps. While increased bullet hardness is often as much a cause of leading as not, in the 9MM I believe it is best to use a harder alloy. WW alloy works air cooled. I just started dropping them in water from the mold about 12 years ago as a matter of convenience and have continued with it. The bullets are harder and they do seem to work. I size all my 9mm bullets .357.

The jury is out using PCing and the Hi-Tek method from Australia. I have had good success with no leading and no loss in accuracy with low pressure cartridges like my 38spl and 45acp. More issues with the 9MM but home made aluminum GC seen to solve the issue with leading. Whether the effort is worth it or not has yet to be determined. Since I don;t get leading using lubed 9MM bullets the only advantage I see in PCing bullets in the 9MM if there is a decided reduction in smoke. Shooting competitions outdoors on some stages and in some atmospheric conditions can be difficult if the smoke from the lube and powder hangs in front of you.

Powder coated bullets are the rage in Australia and seem to work quite well. There is no reason why they wont work here. Alloy seems to be the culprit with high pressure cartridges although I remain skeptical until I have eliminated all other variables. Getting the process right is the starting point, particularly with the HI-Tek product.

Take Care

Bob

Hey Bob,

This is all very interesting... I am literally brand new to casting. I am using WW alloy and water dropping... Yet I still had crazy leading in my STI Spartan... I still haven't gotten it all out yet (wipeout and nitro). I am using a 125gr bullet over 4gr of 231 so I'm at the very low end of acceptable charge as well.

I have already ordered some powder coat, and a used toaster oven should be next to free... So I'll be giving PC a shot for sure.

This may be a stupid question, but do you think that shooting a bunch of jacketed rounds through the Spartan would clean out the last of that pesky lead fouling? Or just make it that much harder to get out?

 

[sawzall]

Use a Chore Boy pot scrubber. Just make sure it's actually copper and not copper played steel. A magnet is your friend. It's gotta be a very tight fit in your barrel. It will cut the copper out in chunks!

 

[Canuck44]

Hey Bob,

This is all very interesting... I am literally brand new to casting. I am using WW alloy and water dropping... Yet I still had crazy leading in my STI Spartan... I still haven't gotten it all out yet (wipeout and nitro). I am using a 125gr bullet over 4gr of 231 so I'm at the very low end of acceptable charge as well.

I have already ordered some powder coat, and a used toaster oven should be next to free... So I'll be giving PC a shot for sure.

This may be a stupid question, but do you think that shooting a bunch of jacketed rounds through the Spartan would clean out the last of that pesky lead fouling? Or just make it that much harder to get out?

Well you are not out of the woods yet. I still have not conquered PC in the 9MM. I am testing GC's to see if I ca rid myself of the leading. What do you size your bullet to? If you are sizing them .356 try .357. Unless you have a rough barrel or one that is over size you should not be getting any leading if you use WW alloy and water quench them from the mold. That said guns are guns and like women they are the same but different. LOL.

I use 4.1 gr of 231/HP38 under my Lyman 356402 bullet sized .357.

I put a brick in my oven to act as a heat sink to maintain an even temperature and also found that placing the bullets on one tray in the middle of the oven seems to ensure an even bake. Also make sure you are at the right temperature. The small ovens are notorious for being off. Getting the process right is 99% of the issue and I am not sure I have it down yet....but will. The 9MM can be a test when it comes to PCing.

To get rid yourself of lead buy some Chor Boy 100% copper cleaning pads (Make sure they are 100% not just copper coated). Wrap strands of the Chor Boy around a cleaning brush and you should eliminate the lead fouling. Clean with Hoppes #9. I have used jacketed bullets to blow out lead in my .357. Some guns doing it works while others not so much from my experience. If you can slug your bore of your Spartan. If it is oversize then you will have to revisit your bullet selection or how much you size your bullets. Let me know how you make out.

Take Care

Bob

 

[bcnorth]

Make sure you are using clip on WW. Remove the stick ons and save them for other projects. I have 8 or 9k down my 9mm and until I tried adding a SMALL amount of pure lead I never had an issue. But even a 15% addition of pure lead caused really bad leading.
I also size to yo .357

 

[ChromeArty]

Well you are not out of the woods yet. I still have not conquered PC in the 9MM. I am testing GC's to see if I ca rid myself of the leading. What do you size your bullet to? If you are sizing them .356 try .357. Unless you have a rough barrel or one that is over size you should not be getting any leading if you use WW alloy and water quench them from the mold. That said guns are guns and like women they are the same but different. LOL.

I use 4.1 gr of 231/HP38 under my Lyman 356402 bullet sized .357.

I put a brick in my oven to act as a heat sink to maintain an even temperature and also found that placing the bullets on one tray in the middle of the oven seems to ensure an even bake. Also make sure you are at the right temperature. The small ovens are notorious for being off. Getting the process right is 99% of the issue and I am not sure I have it down yet....but will. The 9MM can be a test when it comes to PCing.

To get rid yourself of lead buy some Chor Boy 100% copper cleaning pads (Make sure they are 100% not just copper coated). Wrap strands of the Chor Boy around a cleaning brush and you should eliminate the lead fouling. Clean with Hoppes #9. I have used jacketed bullets to blow out lead in my .357. Some guns doing it works while others not so much from my experience. If you can slug your bore of your Spartan. If it is oversize then you will have to revisit your bullet selection or how much you size your bullets. Let me know how you make out.

Take Care

Bob

Lol! Loved the women/gun comparison! ... I find my gun to be temperamental at times

Thanks for taking the time to respond and learn me up some!

My mould is a .356 and I think it is accurate as I have a .358 Lee sizer that does nothing to the bullets I put through it...

I will try some PC and be sure to get back to you on how my bore turns out!

 

[ChromeArty]

Make sure you are using clip on WW. Remove the stick ons and save them for other projects. I have 8 or 9k down my 9mm and until I tried adding a SMALL amount of pure lead I never had an issue. But even a 15% addition of pure lead caused really bad leading.
I also size to yo .357

Thus could definitly be my issue! I just threw the stick ons in with the Clip ons... But there wasn't a lot of them, and I'm water quenching and low powder charge... Fingers crossed for PC

 

[ChromeArty]

Use a Chore Boy pot scrubber. Just make sure it's actually copper and not copper played steel. A magnet is your friend. It's gotta be a very tight fit in your barrel. It will cut the copper out in chunks!

Thank you!!!

And holy hell that was a lot of lead he got outta there! Assuming the chunks on the white paper came from that barrel... Which they surely did

 

[f55]

Tumble the powder on?

Yes.