Push-feed vs CRF

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Demonical said:
I've had M700 Remingtons forever; I've got 8 of 'em. All push-feeds of course.

Lately, when I get thinking about buying a new rifle. I am favoring CRF actions. The CZ-Brnos, the new M70 Winchesters are actions I really like, the M98 clones, Husky. The M77 Ruger is also CRF, but they don't interest me so much, though they are well built rifles.

I don't know that there is any real justification for wanting CRF vs the old faithful push-feed. My go-to rifle forever has been my old M700 .338WM. It has never failed me, although I have let it down a time or 2... like the time I drove over it... but that's a long story.
According to all theories, the push-feed is a piece of crap, extraction is suspect, the rifle is certain to fail etc...

FWIW, Craig Boddington has hunted extensively with M700s in Africa, because he's a lefty, and for years the only company that catered to left-handers was Remington. Boddington has a DVD out on African rifles and says it's hogwash, that a CRF action is necessary for Dangerous Game.

Anyway, there's just something about a Mauser cloned action, watching the extractor grab that cartridge and slide it into the chamber. I've got 5 CRF rifles now, and next bolt action rifle (whenever that is) that I get, will likely be CRF.

That A.G. Zella-Mehlis (Anschutz Pre-WWII) 9.3x62 has got an amazing action; so smooth. Likewise my new M70 Safari, and the CZ's that I've got.



Opinions?










FWIW I love Ruger single action & double action revolvers, semi-auto pistols, Ruger No.1, the 10-22 etc...
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i dont know when since Lh bolt actions has been able but since a child i ve seen them not by every company for sure but enough to be used (like tikka, Sako, Heym, Mauser etc.) .

about CB never forget that he s a gun writer paid by companies to write articles and as many left handers can shoot right hand rigs as well.

i ll always take with a pinch of salt his advices and have some books of him here.

back to CRF or PF i prefer crf but mostly because when i was guiding we ve seen a lot of issues with rem 700 (mostly Short action) and not that much with other rigs except the abolt from browning.

but again this is mostly a personnal preference based on experience or love.
 
My preference is the CRF, again as some have already suggested, because it is solely my preference. I have push feeds too and noticed that they tend to bung up a shell - mostly due to my either not seating properly into the magazine or too far forward. I also note that I have not had that issue with the CRF's. Is it a big deal? Nope. Overall, is one better than the other? Nope. In the end, does it really matter? Nope.

But then again, it's only my opinion and preference.
 
Calum said:
Actually yes, (they lack a cartridge interrupter) hence why I no longer own any and believe the Mosin to be a better rifle.

[youtube]FXRY2j3RaUs[/youtube]
Brilliant.

As for the CRF vs PF debate... I have never noticed a difference.
Then again I don't use my rifles while upside down or while dodging incoming bullets on a battlefield...so far. ;)
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Funny, I'm kind of in the same boat.

I have seen LE's fail more than any other milsurp I've used, and while I still own some, they're slowly being sold off and generally replaced by mosins.
 
i like pf i dont trust the crf extractor sitting there with no backup after the bolt is turned into place especially as a lefty extractor in my face. i have win crf and pf i dont see the crf any better
 
It's already been suggested here but for hunting purposes unless you hang upside down I see no reason to concern yourself with it. Find a rifle you like ( CRF or PF) and hit the field without giving it a second thought. I own both and honestly don't really notice the difference (while shooting and cycling the action).
 
i can hang upside down and feed no prob m700 and pf 70 ok i didnt hang upside down but i turned the rifle over sorry doesnt work well with 700 det mag floorplate good
 
Hi mate, I havnt read the whole thread, although use both Push an Control, i have a hard time splitting differences and rarely hang upside down out of trees whilst hunting.

I prefer certain makes of rifle rather than bolt type.


wl
 
When it comes to dangerous game a sensible hunter will be armed with a very nice double rifle. I own both the pf and crf and don't see any difference for the average hunter. As for the Lee Enfield i have had 4 or 5 over the years and as i got older and smarter got rid of them. I don't care for minute of sheet of ply wood when it comes to accuracy. Likely i should go put on my flame resistant underwear now.
 
When push feed works there's not much to complain about, and a poor CRF action is certainly enough to make anyone to embrace a 700 Remington. But I find a CRF bolt that runs smoothly provides me with a sense of comfort and security that just isn't there with a push feed. This might have to do with geometry. The push feed plunger wants to push the cartridge out of line with the chamber (I removed the plunger from the bolt face of my target rifle to prevent any, albeit minute misalignment of the cartridge with the center of the bore) where the CRF bolt holds the cartridge dead ahead. Clearly there are good and poor examples of both, types I was never for example able to get a 700 chambered for the .222 to feed properly from the magazine, so I gave up and converted it to a single shot, whereas my little SAKO L-461 feeds flawlessly. Once upon a time I owned a 700 chambered in .30/06, that never had a hiccup in thousands of rounds, until the extractor, you know the one that M-700 enthusiasts claim will never fail, failed. The simple fix here is to simply have the extractor replaced right? Except that the guy I sent it to couldn't get it right, as it thereafter shaved brass off the cartridge head, and in those pre-internet days I just didn't know about the excellent smiths that were out there. I'll even concede its nice to be able to drop a round on top of the follower and simply close the action, which tends to be hard on CRF guns, although its claimed that some tolerate it. But for me, all things being equal, I'll choose a CRF.
 
dead meat said:
When it comes to dangerous game a sensible hunter will be armed with a very nice double rifle. I own both the pf and crf and don't see any difference for the average hunter. As for the Lee Enfield i have had 4 or 5 over the years and as i got older and smarter got rid of them. I don't care for minute of sheet of ply wood when it comes to accuracy. Likely i should go put on my flame resistant underwear now.
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Been there, done that, and have the T-shirt. I wouldn't trade a good bolt gun for a $40K double, especially on a DG hunt, despite what guys like Mark Sullivan and Jeff Rann can do. Had I been brought up on a double I might think differently, and while I appreciate what goes into them, they aren't for me. But then again I've never been accused of being sensible.

I agree with the Lee Enfield criticism though. I've seen some LE's that were shooters, and never owned any of them. The one's I've owned would only feed pointy bullets, and those had better be nylon tipped. They were hopeless with the round nose slugs, I favored and without fail the feed ramp would drive these into the rear edge of the chamber. Like your's, the ones I had proved to be minute of barn door. One doesn't need varmint rifle accuracy in a big game rifle, but there are limits to what a rifle enthusiast will put up with.
 
^ Knocking the venerable Lee-Enfield, for shame!

I was at the range one day, a few years back; had my .270 M700 Sendero, which is capable of shooting legitimate 5 shots into 1". I've done it with that rifle a couple of times. I was shooting pretty good, and I'd get 4 shots inside an inch, then get a flyer, so I just couldn't get that 1" group. (of course Cooper owners will sniff at such a poor group as a 1" 5-shot group).

Anyway, my buddy ROA, showed up, and he had an old sporteized Lee-Enfield. He'd paid something $150 for the rifle; had some handloads built for it.

While I was sitting there, he laid down 5 different, 5-shot groups with that old, .303 and every group was under 1". I wouldn't have believed it, except I saw it.
 
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SuperCub said:
270 vs 280 vs 30-06.
Bear defence.
223 for deer.
CRF vs PF.

Where would CGN be w/o them threads?

Wait till Angus get here. :D
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The gravity of this thread just pulled me in, I'm mellowing as of late on the whole deal. But what the hell, here's my pitch. ;)


Still prefer CRFs, they're the better system in my opinion as I'm not aware of a drawback to them. They're pricier to make, and manufacturers used to avoid them for that reason, today's technology is changing that to be sure. I'm moving out of my corner a bit lately, as some guns for the non-dangerous game side of the sport are just easier come by in PF. I've been shooting a Rem 700 LTR at 500 yards the last few nights, and it certainly works. Lots I could nit pick about on it, safety, action feel, economy shortcuts but the reality is it rings steel everytime at long range. Not a ton more you can ask for in some ways, in other ways I still believe better rifles are offered for similar money. In the end though I'm a hobbyist and my butt is on the line once every few years with dangerous game, in those instances as in ten months again fortunately it's only CRF for me. Others have been highly successful with PFs as mentioned in the same endeavors. The perfectionist in me appreciates CRFs and I find a nice rifle "off" visually without a claw extractor, but this is conditioning. The realist in me is coming to again appreciate most guns do what's asked of them everytime and if you like it, good for you no flies on whatever it is.
 
Lately I went a bit over-board on African DVDs. All dangerous game hunting themes; Boddington, Charlton, elephants, cape buffalo etc...

I was surprised at how many of the clients, that were in hunts featured in those DVDs, used Remington M700s. Not one of those guys had a problem (at least not on film). I'm saying that of the guys that carried bolt guns, probably half of those guys had M700s.

FWIW...
 
No one has mentioned the fact that if you use a push feed on dangerous game your #### will drop off. I saw a guy at the pool, with no ####. He said he lost it in a farming accident but I'm pretty sure that he suffers from dickdropoffitis caused by push feed dangerous game hunting.

True story. Save yourself and your friends from the ravages of dickdropoffitis. Only hunt with M70, M98 or M77 actions. Your #### will thank you.
 
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