Lets start at 12k. And buy the way, we are talking about hunting rifles here. Remember sleeker, smoother, blah, blah, blah.
Push-feed vs CRF
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Lets start at 12k. And buy the way, we are talking about hunting rifles here. Remember sleeker, smoother, blah, blah, blah.
WTF is the deal with the "upside down" cycling BS? Has anyone actually encountered a situation where this was necessary? I'm thinking some of you need some rifle handling lessons.
It's a well known fact that upside down shooting is a cost effective way for lefty's to shoot a bolt action, as opposed to buying a specially built rifle. The only difficulty is mounting the optics.
OP- IMO as long as it's a quality rifle, CRF or push feed is a moot point. I have both. My Mauser let me down when my flip top mitten got jammed in the bolt. My Weatherby let me down when I neglected to degrease the bolt on a new rifle and the firing pin froze solid.
Some people are worshippers of the "North American Gun Makers Guild" who are custom gun makers and not manufactures. In the "real" world today, and within the scope of this thread, I would believe that the discussion would be about long established firearm manufactures where hunters can purchase a PF/CRF off the shelf, as per the firearms that I mentiond in a previous post. There are more and better firearms to purchase in the PF actions than the CRF actions.
I'm not talking about anyone in the guild. Although a few would qualify. And of course in YOUR context you would consider a $3000 production rifle "high end". It is also painfully obvious you've owned precious few well built CRF rifles.
Martini/Hagn/Turnbull built me one from a Winchester Model 70 Supergrade................does that count as one of your precious built CRF rifle? As I mentioned before this is PF vs CRF and there are better PF manufactured firearms than CRF...............bar none.
Martini/Hagn/Turnbull built me one from a Winchester Model 70 Supergrade................does that count as one of your precious built CRF rifle? As I mentioned before this is PF vs CRF and there are better PF manufactured firearms than CRF...............bar none.
"bar none",good one! End of story!
BigUglyMan
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Martini/Hagn/Turnbull built me one from a Winchester Model 70 Supergrade................does that count as one of your precious built CRF rifle? As I mentioned before this is PF vs CRF and there are better PF manufactured firearms than CRF...............bar none.
Post a photo with a penny on the stock.
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This thread falls into this catagory.......
for the argumentative folks.
for the argumentative folks.
Then why does Mauser manufacture push feed actions? It's their latest greatest invention. Come-on guys, name me off a bunch of CRF "manufactures" that make "good quality" firearms that can be purchase over the counter, and I'll show you many more of push feed manufactures.
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Maybe that's because modern firearm's manufacturing is a race to the bottom. The folks want low cost rifles and the manufacturers are obliging us. What was that saying, oh yes, "There is hardly anything in the world that some men cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." John Ruskin
It's simply a matter of one thing and one thing only. Accuracy vs cost. We want more accuracy than we need at a price the unemployed can afford. And we want 37 of them in the safe. That same mentality leads to these cost cutting measures spilling over into "high end" production rifles. Wrapping fancy wood around compromised metal does not make it a better mousetrap.
This is a subject that invariably degrades into a pi**ing match between those who think that CRF is the greatest vs those who think PF is the greatest.
The two sides will NEVER agree on this subject, period.
I say use what you prefer, and leave it at that.
Arguments about custom built guns that exceed 12K are irrevelant to the actual discussion.
I just came back from a 1000 yard shoot.
Out of 60 shooters, and at least twice that many custom built rifles, I think I saw 2 CRF actions.
Does that mean that PF actions are superior? Hardly, but you get my point.
It's like trying to beat up the wind with a baseball bat....a waste of effort.
Regards, Eagleye.
The two sides will NEVER agree on this subject, period.
I say use what you prefer, and leave it at that.
Arguments about custom built guns that exceed 12K are irrevelant to the actual discussion.
I just came back from a 1000 yard shoot.
Out of 60 shooters, and at least twice that many custom built rifles, I think I saw 2 CRF actions.
Does that mean that PF actions are superior? Hardly, but you get my point.
It's like trying to beat up the wind with a baseball bat....a waste of effort.
Regards, Eagleye.
Most of our rifles have a pampered life. That's why we have the luxury of judging their quality by such things as how smooth the bolt is, or if this custom trigger has a slightly better trigger pull than that one, or if parts are fitted so tightly that dust can stop the bolt never mind disable a trigger. Most of the time it just doesn't make any real difference.It's a nice life, for both our rifles and us.
That smooth bolt stroke doesn't seem as important when it's grinding forward and closing with a crunch instead of a snick. Those carefully neck sized cases and tight match cut chamber don't seem as important when the cartridges in your magazine and belt pouch turned green a week ago in the rifle that hasn't been dry in two.That work of art trigger zero movement trigger won't mean much when the cocking piece is following down and there's nothing you can do about it.
By then, your priorities shift from working smooth to working at all, then onto whether you can get a cartridge back out of the chamber if you can only get it halfway in. You know you're having fun when you're down to being happy that you can get your rifle running without tools or parts. Of course, you have neither.
Different rifles have different blends of features. Many of the condition-proof, idiot-resistant design features are concentrated in actions that resemble Mausers more than a little. Some CRF actions have abandoned the super simple military and M70 triggers for more complex and fragile designs.
That smooth bolt stroke doesn't seem as important when it's grinding forward and closing with a crunch instead of a snick. Those carefully neck sized cases and tight match cut chamber don't seem as important when the cartridges in your magazine and belt pouch turned green a week ago in the rifle that hasn't been dry in two.That work of art trigger zero movement trigger won't mean much when the cocking piece is following down and there's nothing you can do about it.
By then, your priorities shift from working smooth to working at all, then onto whether you can get a cartridge back out of the chamber if you can only get it halfway in. You know you're having fun when you're down to being happy that you can get your rifle running without tools or parts. Of course, you have neither.
Different rifles have different blends of features. Many of the condition-proof, idiot-resistant design features are concentrated in actions that resemble Mausers more than a little. Some CRF actions have abandoned the super simple military and M70 triggers for more complex and fragile designs.
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