Pushed in bullets question???

SC,

God! I wouldn't shoot such loads out of a mauser let alone a lever! :shock: The risk of injury to you or a bystander is definately not worth the risk..... All to what - save $16 on a box of ammo?!!! :shock:

Are these reloads? Perhaps the weren't resized correctly? Defective non-uniform bullets??? Wrong size bullets? :shock: I would pull the bullets and discard. Resize the neck and start with fresh bullets.

Actually that is not necessarily true.The bullets are loose in the case necks and will move very easily as the pressure builds in the cartridge.When you add in the fact that the bullets will have a larger jump before striking the rifling which will result in the bullets being engraved much easier,the peak pressure may even be reduced instead of increased.
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Respectfully, I think this is hogwash!!!! I have owned a couple of levers - NEVER happens! I have reloaded for almost 20 years.... The culprit is an error in the sizing/crimping process. If I want to pull one of my bullets out of a reload, it takes a hell of a wallup from the kinetic puller to get it out!!!! More than would be created in a mag tube of a recoiling gun (BTW: Can you consider a .32 WIN SPL a recoiling gun?!! :roll: )

'The moral of this story would be: When in doubt - DON'T SHOOT it! Better to be safe than sorry! 8)
 
sPuTnik said:
SC,

God! I wouldn't shoot such loads out of a mauser let alone a lever! :shock: The risk of injury to you or a bystander is definately not worth the risk..... All to what - save $16 on a box of ammo?!!! :shock:

Are these reloads? Perhaps the weren't resized correctly? Defective non-uniform bullets??? Wrong size bullets? :shock: I would pull the bullets and discard. Resize the neck and start with fresh bullets.

Actually that is not necessarily true.The bullets are loose in the case necks and will move very easily as the pressure builds in the cartridge.When you add in the fact that the bullets will have a larger jump before striking the rifling which will result in the bullets being engraved much easier,the peak pressure may even be reduced instead of increased.
Click to expand...

Respectfully, I think this is hogwash!!!! I have owned a couple of levers - NEVER happens! I have reloaded for almost 20 years.... The culprit is an error in the sizing/crimping process. If I want to pull one of my bullets out of a reload, it takes a hell of a wallup from the kinetic puller to get it out!!!! More than would be created in a mag tube of a recoiling gun (BTW: Can you consider a .32 WIN SPL a recoiling gun?!! :roll: )

'The moral of this story would be: When in doubt - DON'T SHOOT it! Better to be safe than sorry! 8)
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You obviously don't understand my post.In order for these bullets to be pushed in to the case,they must not have had the proper bullet to case interference to hold them in position.In other words the bullets were loose in the case necks.I have pulled bullets before and I do know how tight they should be,but in this case due to some error in sizing,they were left loose in the case neck.If they were tight in the case neck as they should have been,they would not have been pushed back into the case.Now that we have that established,my original point is that with the bullets now being loose in the case necks,as soon as the powder is ignited,the bullet will provide much less resistance to movement than it normally would due to the lack of neck tension,and they will begin moving sooner which will result in keeping the pressure in the case from building to abnormally high levels.Since the bullets will have more of a run at the rifling,they will engrave more easily which will result in lower pressure being developed as they enter the rifling.The end result is that the peak chamber pressure may actually be lower than normal.
 
What happens if the powder ignites and some gases escape the case prior to the bullet entering the rifling? Will this cause an appreciable increase in pressure?
I say if it does not look right, dont use it!

Troutseeker
 
It's been my experience that factory loads in 30-30 will get like this, after many in and out of the tube sessions. Particularly if the owner tries to jam an extra round in the tube, or if the tube mag spring is on the heavy side.

Also, and I realise I'll likely get flamed for this. I've fired such rounds in the 30-30 many many times. Single loaded. They do I'm sure increase pressure, but they don't even flatten the primer when fired. (At least not for me)
Would I recomend it in a high pressure bolt round, no. But in the model '94 it works just fine, or it has for me, in three different rifles, at least a dozen times. Whatever pressure increase there is, is well within the tolerance of the '94.
Am I going to recommend you all go out and try it? NO. But I will admit that I have, and with negligeable results. (accuracy sucks)
 
troutseeker said:
What happens if the powder ignites and some gases escape the case prior to the bullet entering the rifling? Will this cause an appreciable increase in pressure?
I say if it does not look right, dont use it!

Troutseeker
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If gases escape around the bullet,the chamber pressure will be decreased.
 
I have seen a few like this end up jamming barrels also...lots O' fun if one is blazing away. :shock: I'd take the advice of others here and either reload them, or drop them in bucket of oil to kill them.
 
Calum said:
I have seen a few like this end up jamming barrels also...lots O' fun if one is blazing away. :shock: I'd take the advice of others here and either reload them, or drop them in bucket of oil to kill them.
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You can't blaze away with such rounds, they won't feed. Must be single loaded.
Obviously, if a bullet is rattling around in the powder area, not being held by the neck area at all, it poses a risk of a missfire, hangfire, or a primer only discharge. SC has more sense than to fire a round like that without checking the bore for obstruction after the fact..
 
I've fired bullets like this in a few different rifles, back when I was too dumb to know that such things will lead to catastrophe. :D Nothign really happened.

The answer is simple. Pull the bullets, dump out the powder, neck size, recharge, reseat and crimp. :wink:

Frankly, you could probably get away with simply pulling the bullets out a little, reseating them,a nd crimpiing, too. :wink:
 
Frankly, you could probably get away with simply pulling the bullets out a little, reseating them,a nd crimpiing, too
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Not in a tube mag, I've tried.
Single load only.

If you really are concerned, load them in the bullet puller, pull them (or hammer them) forward a bit, and then shoot them single loaded.
 
stubblejumper said:
Out of curiosity,I checked all seven of my loading manuals and not one listed "minimum" overall lengths.
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Okay you got me.....I was thinking of "Case lengths" or maybe just not thinking :oops: :shock:
Still don't change my mind though, throw those rounds in the garbage :wink:
 
BIGREDD said:
Don't shoot any bullet that looks like that... ever. :idea:
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Ditto
It's a no-brainer.

Safe pressures are determined by a set of variables that include overall bullet seating. Change that and pressures change. My opinion is that they would increase pressure to a dangerous level. At the very least, accuracy will be severely compromised; at worst the firearm and the shooter will be seriously damaged. Don't ever take any chances with defective ammunition! :shock:

Pull the bullets and reload or toss them for safety's sake :!:

Regards,
Private Skidmarks
 
RESULTS!!...................................

Based upon the advise of two very seasoned shooters and my own thoughts on the results, I shot them "as is". :shock:

I figured that as it was factory loads for a 32spl, designed to be safe in rifles, some approaching 100yrs in age, the load would be VERY MILD, much like 8x57 factory loads and the corresponding advice confirmed this. I don't think I would have done this little trick with my .264Mag and hot loads. :mrgreen:

There were no problems at all. No high pressure signs at all. Primers were rounded, and all cases extracted easily. All cases were loaded one at a time.

I had planned on using them to sight in and use the good ones to fine tune. The "pushed in ones still shot a 2" group at 100ys w/a 4x scope and a pitted bore. :shock:

This is the only loading he uses in this rifle, and results may be better with other ammo. I did clean the bore with Wipeout before going out. prolly hasn't ever benn copper cleaned.


SC.....................
 
Did anyone else notice the worn condition of the corners on the box? How about the pressure dent in the cartridge second from the left? Or how about the condition of the necks on the far left, and the two on the right?

I would say that these are poor reloads, placed back in the factory box. The shells are showing signs of wear, probably from hitting the ground, and the one is from too much case lube when going into the die.

Dont fire them.
 
hoochie said:
Did anyone else notice the worn condition of the corners on the box? How about the pressure dent in the cartridge second from the left? Or how about the condition of the necks on the far left, and the two on the right?

I would say that these are poor reloads, placed back in the factory box. The shells are showing signs of wear, probably from hitting the ground, and the one is from too much case lube when going into the die.

Dont fire them.
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I noticed the same thing, and was going to comment, but then I thought 'well par for the course I guess'. 8)
 
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