Question about a Light carrying around build

powdergun

powdergun

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So I am just thinking about something I may want done some time in the not too distant future and that is a nice light hunting rifle and I have a couple of questions for the experts.

1) Can a lighter barreled rifle be just as precise as a heavier barreled gun from a cold barrel ? ( As a hunting gun the first one or two shots will be the important ones)

2) What barrel length would you suggest for a 7mm mag as a good balance between portability and velocity ?

3) Do lighter barrels provide the same potential for long range accuracy ( lets say up to 800 yards ) ?

4) Are the Carbon Fiber barrels the way to go ?


Thank in advance for any and all advice.
 
I know there are rifles with slim barrels that are very accurate - could be the quality of the bore, and no doubt has something to do with the bedding. I think commercially, that was the story with the Remington mountain rifles? As far as barrel length, might want to match up barrel length to the cartridge - I suspect much less than 23 or 24 inches is really a handicap for a 7mm Rem Mag as far as bullet velocity - whereas cartridges like 308 Win seem to do fine down to 20" or so. Besides fire and roar, not so sure a 20" 7mm Rem Mag is that far away from a similar 7x57 or 7mm-08. With the same profile, a shorter barrel is "stiffer", so there are very accurate 20" or shorter barrels - they just will not develop the muzzle velocity that an extra 4" of barrel will produce. That extra speed may or may not be important to you.

I have had no experience with carbon fibre barrels, so can not comment about them.
 
Another thought. There was / is (?) a style (s) of European rifle made for hunting chamois and similar game in the European mountains. I have seen pictures - never handled one. Apparently, you need it lightweight - you are essentially mountain climbing to get where you are going. Have seen ads for a couple types - one type a single shot break action; another type was a bolt action mauser style with 3 shot magazine - the Kesselin - 2.8 to 3 kg (6 to 6 1/2 pounds) - very slim, very dainty, very lightweight, but with longish 55 cm (21 5/8") barrels - have to get there in the first place, then you are only going to get one or possibly two shots. The Kesselin is claimed to be built to 1908 dimensions, yet has a pre-98 receiver ring, and some fancy work done to get a trigger to work in the much shallower action area as a result of the shorter magazine.
 
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powdergun said:
So I am just thinking about something I may want done some time in the not too distant future and that is a nice light hunting rifle and I have a couple of questions for the experts.

1) Can a lighter barreled rifle be just as precise as a heavier barreled gun from a cold barrel ? ( As a hunting gun the first one or two shots will be the important ones)

2) What barrel length would you suggest for a 7mm mag as a good balance between portability and velocity ?

3) Do lighter barrels provide the same potential for long range accuracy ( lets say up to 800 yards ) ?

4) Are the Carbon Fiber barrels the way to go ?


Thank in advance for any and all advice.
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1. A light barrel can be as precise as a heavy barrel, especially from a cold bore shot. Heavy barrels really help with multiple shots and the barrel heating up. But most barrels will shoot to the same or very similar cold bore point of impact. If you practice a bit and know where that cold bore shot is, then you can account for that when you pull the trigger with an animal in the crosshairs.

2. Anything less that 24" would likely be a big handicap on any of the 7mm magnum offerings

3. No comment, I don't shoot any thin profile barrels at distance.

4. I own one carbon fiber barrel. It's a Carbon Six barrel at 22" in my 7-08AI. In my particular build it provided the right combination of heavy barrel profile while being light weight, maintained a decent barrel length for velocity, and gave the rifle a very nice balance with the remainder of my components. The down side is that carbon fiber barrels are expensive. I am happy with mine.
 
I would definately keep it above 22” for the 7rem mag if you want the velocity for longer shots.

As far as the barrel a good quality barrel will shoot great even in a thinner profile. I would probably fo for a medium profile barrel between a sporter and a varmint barrel. Muzzle at 0.700” approx.
 
Have a look at the X-bolt hells canyon speed, or hells canyon long range, there is also a mcmilan stock option, be further ahead with your dollar than with a build, have had great performing brownings, and have went the custom route, in hindsight Id just put the money to one of these up front, the speed weighs less than 7lbs and I have no doubt will perform for you.
 
I had a 20” 338WM. Dropped about 120fps with 230gr bullets from a 24” barrel. It’s funny, the 6.5CM crowd is ga-ga over a bullet that is 250fps slower that the venerable 270Win, but gags on a “MAGNUM” that is 120fps slower with a barrel 4” shorter than standard. I would absolutely carry and hunt with a 22” 7mmRM. Reloading would narrow the gap. My velocity loss in the 20” 338WM was a bit less than reported when I loaded to just before stiff bolt lift.
 
emerson said:
I had a 20” 338WM. Dropped about 120fps with 230gr bullets from a 24” barrel. It’s funny, the 6.5CM crowd is ga-ga over a bullet that is 250fps slower that the venerable 270Win, but gags on a “MAGNUM” that is 120fps slower with a barrel 4” shorter than standard. I would absolutely carry and hunt with a 22” 7mmRM. Reloading would narrow the gap. My velocity loss in the 20” 338WM was a bit less than reported when I loaded to just before stiff bolt lift.
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Huh, another 6.5 hater.... I see what your saying with velocity loss and barrel length, I wouldn't argue that, cause I think the same way, but I wouldn't necessarily go with a short barrel 7mmRM. The 338, sure at 20", but the larger 338 bore gets a round up to speed better than a 284 diameter bore. You might not be sacrificing much velocity with the 7mm, but the noise will be greater in contrast I believe. The 7mm and all the powder behind it can take advantage of all that barrel length. I stand behind the 26" x-bolt as a longish range hunting rig with reasonable weight as that's what the OP seemed like he was asking for. A 257-277 non magnum can save some weight in action length, and has less to gain with a longer barrel in comparison, but it's not what the OP asked for
 
I'm planning on a build with a 26" carbon barrel in 7 SAUM for long range hunting/occasional ELR. No experience yet with carbon barrels but as far as I can tell it should satisfy the requirements I have for accuracy, weight and not heating up too much over a string of 8-10 rds. The only downside is cost but hey, you can't take it with you, haha
 
Your cold bore accuracy would be the same given equal quality barrels. Also if you are willing to lose a tough of speed a 22” is nicer to pack if you are hunting thick brush, in open country you wouldn’t notice the difference to go 24”.

The thin barrel itself is not really a problem for long range, it is the stability that a heavy rifle has that is an advantage, your form needs to be perfect for a light wieght rifle where you can be a bit off on form and still shoot a heavy rifle well. Most people wouldn’t shoot a 5 1/2 pound 7mag as well as a 9 pound 7mag. No matter where the weight is from.

Carbon barrels are fine, I have a few and they shoot just as well as any stainless barrel I have. That said a 24” #3 steel barrel is very close in weight to a 24” light sendero carbon barrel. The only thing I notice is that in 10 shot strings the mirage off the carbon barrel is significantly worse.
 
cbh560 said:
1. A light barrel can be as precise as a heavy barrel, especially from a cold bore shot. Heavy barrels really help with multiple shots and the barrel heating up. But most barrels will shoot to the same or very similar cold bore point of impact. If you practice a bit and know where that cold bore shot is, then you can account for that when you pull the trigger with an animal in the crosshairs.

2. Anything less that 24" would likely be a big handicap on any of the 7mm magnum offerings

3. No comment, I don't shoot any thin profile barrels at distance.

4. I own one carbon fiber barrel. It's a Carbon Six barrel at 22" in my 7-08AI. In my particular build it provided the right combination of heavy barrel profile while being light weight, maintained a decent barrel length for velocity, and gave the rifle a very nice balance with the remainder of my components. The down side is that carbon fiber barrels are expensive. I am happy with mine.
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I concur with the above... glad you are enjoying your CarbonSix barrel..

To the OP, the question has to be qualified by how much shooting do you plan to do.... are you interested in 2rds or a couple of mags?

Quality barrels from the cold bore can be equally accurate regardless of contour or material... however, thin steel barrels can overheat much faster vs a quality carbon fibre wrapped barrel OF EQUAL WEIGHT.

So with a 7RM, barrels can heat up in a big hurry... for a couple of rds, build whatever you want. If you perceive the need for multiple shots that might stretch out towards 10rds, then the safer bet is the CF wrapped vs say a #1 or #2 contour.

As a way to ball park the savings in barrel mass, a CF wrapped barrel of equal contour and length will be around 2/3s the mass of a steel barrel.

Jerry
 
No experience to answer some of the questions in the OP, but will comment on my build experience with this one particular rifle. Can’t claim this fits in the “light weight” category but it is certainly of the lighter weight variety coming in at 7.5 lbs all-in as in the picture. Specs are: Stiller Predator action / pinned Holland recoil lug / Jewel trigger / KS Arms bottom metal / HS Precision magazine / Wildcat stock :::switch barrels are Kreiger (mostly #2 & #3 contour ...chambered in 6 Dasher / 30 BR / 6.5 X 47L. Scope is Leupold 4 - 12 X 40.
The ‘47’s agg about 1/2 MOA and the others a bit sub-1/2 MOA (5 shot groups). I have not tested beyond 300M but safe to say that a bullet on course at 300M will continue on-course beyond.
Hope that info helps.
I also have a “standard weight” hunting rig on a BAT action with a half dozen barrels. Currently doing a build on a KS Arms 2 lug action chambered to 6.5 SLR and 308 Win.
By-the-way, recoil counts.
 
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