I just came back from a gun show, I beleive I just bought a really nice Webley MkII 455. The dealer correctly identified the gun as an antique but stated that it was currently registered and he was waiting to hear from the CFC to have it deregistered. Since it appeared to have a 4 inch barrel and I don't have 12.6 on my license I was not sure if I could take posession of a revolver that is clearly an antique but technically is still registered as a prohib. It seemed the dealer was ready to hand me the gun and send me on my merry way until we discussed my concern and I decided I would wait until he got official notification that it was deregistered before I took possesion. Did I do the right thing or should have I just taken the revolver home?
Question about buying a registered antique
- Thread starter apu
- Start date
Only the registered owner can apply to have the gun deregistered. So basically you cannot take possession of the gun (legally) until it is deregistered because it is in the strange situation of being both an antique and a registered prohibited weapon until the registration is revoked. i have been through the same problem; in my case the transfer was blocked until the gun was deregistered by the owner.
cheers mooncoon
cheers mooncoon
- Location
- Tucson, Arizona
Strange laws. Would a Brown bess also be an "assault weapon" because it takes a bayonet?
Same kind of reasoning.
Same kind of reasoning.
John Sukey!! Now, even you would know the answer to your question about the Bess.....it all depends on the length of the barrel, whether or not it has been painted "black" and how many rounds it will hold in the magazine. How lucky you are to live where you do. I am going to PM you. Dave
This is a tricky question.
The gun IS an antique. The laws regarding antiques are clear. The FA does not apply.
This gun should not be registered - its no different than a glue gun.
Question: Does anyone run a registration check on antique pistols before they buy them? I don't, because it is not neccessary. If you are absolutely sure it is an antique, the FA dosen't apply, so possesion of the gun, whether it has an old paper or not, should not be a crime.
Deregistration is a farce, if the item is not required to be registered in the first place.
The gun IS an antique. The laws regarding antiques are clear. The FA does not apply.
This gun should not be registered - its no different than a glue gun.
Question: Does anyone run a registration check on antique pistols before they buy them? I don't, because it is not neccessary. If you are absolutely sure it is an antique, the FA dosen't apply, so possesion of the gun, whether it has an old paper or not, should not be a crime.
Deregistration is a farce, if the item is not required to be registered in the first place.
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Strange laws. Would a Brown bess also be an "assault weapon" because it takes a bayonet?
Same kind of reasoning.
Off topic, but interesting. Fist off, the B. Bess was the assult weapon of the day. In Canada, if it is a replica, it requires no registration... until you decide to cut it down to a 'blanket gun'. Shorten it to less than 26" and you now have a registerable, restricted firearm. Convert it to percussion an it must be registered. Cut the barrel short enough, and you have created a prohibited firearm.
To further confuse the issue, a genuine antique flintlock B. Bess can be as short as you want, or convert it to percussion and no registration is required.
True Enough... but APU and the seller both know its Registered so i think he did the Right thing.
The Odds he would get checked on the way home would be very slim but i can just see the cops running the gun thru the RCMP Data base then looking at APU and saying "Antique you say"
The way things would progress from that point i can only guess. LOL
I had an interesting conversation at supper this evening with a relative who is a crown prosecutor. When asked which laws would prevail in this situation as it pertains to the antique and the restricted weapon descriptions in the FA, his exact quote was "you don't want to find out". He also added as a prosecutor there are many components of the FA that are contradictory/confusing and in the described situation the prosecutor likely would not even bother trying take it to court unless there were additional criminal code violations.
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I wouldn't want to find out either...lol.
Dingus - always travel with you antique guns in a locked case. That helps to keep the LEOs sweaty hands off 'em. They have no business looking into your locked case, as you have an expectation of privacy. I like it when we can use the tangled mess of laws to our advantage - as rare as it is.
Dingus - always travel with you antique guns in a locked case. That helps to keep the LEOs sweaty hands off 'em. They have no business looking into your locked case, as you have an expectation of privacy. I like it when we can use the tangled mess of laws to our advantage - as rare as it is.
There is another reason to put your antique handguns into a locked case when travelling ...... it is the law. There are not many laws that govern your antique sixguns, actually only two that are of any significance. The first is that they need to be stored or displayed unloaded. The second is that, when transporting them (i.e., travelling in a vehicle), they need to be in a locked case. Unlike restricted firearms, they do not require a trigger lock, only a locked case. This is just for antique handguns. Antique rifles do not need to be in a locked case when 'transporting' them. I don't know if 'transporting' included being in a canoe, but I keep my sixgun in a locked, floatable case when canoeing in remote crown land areas as well.
tactical870
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Buckhorn, Ontario
As it is not a motorized boat, you can lawfully discharge a firearm from a canoe. I'd imagine locking it while canoing is going a step farther than needed.
Of course back to the OP's question, An antique is an antique weather it has been mistaken as a restricted or not in the past. As long as an approved verifier (even someone from the CFC) has given you the FRT # and signed it off as an antique I would not be concerned. At one point all antique handguns were registered and I'd bet a lot listed on the EE are still in the system somewhere....
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The sad part of all of this is hoopla over really nothing. It seems that the interpretation of what is a antique, restricted, or even prohib is all too often incorrectly interpreted by LEO, prosecutor, judge. I am infrequently surprised by experts in the law who maintain incorrect information. The relative who is a prosecutor is a very intelligent man and competent lawyer who puts bad people in jail on daily basis, based on his interpretation of the FA and criminal code. With that in mind we recently debated the legality of wearing a holstered loaded antique on private rural property. I was surprised that he was under impression that storage, transportation or concealment restrictions would apply. I was a little disapointed that I a legal layman had to remind him what "in use" and holstered firearm mean. Needless to say if a LEO and prosecutor can take you down the wrong road it is not unreasonable to believe that without a great deal of money and a knowledgeable lawyer in your corner a judge won't negatively seal the deal for you.
I am slowing realizing it's best to keep a low profile and don't even let the judicial system have a shot at you.
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Discretion is always a good thing, antique firearms included. I have no desire to flaunt an antique sixgun in front of people who are almost certainly going to call the police because they are utterly ignorant of antique classifications. Then there are those who, if they knew, would write a front page scare piece in the Globe and Mail trying to panic the public. We don't need that either. When I show or talk about my antique firearms, I emphasize the history, the age of the gun, and interesting historical facts from that time period and the antique guns I may have. The objective is to cultivate interest and neutralize irrational phobias.
The other thing I'd recommend is that every shooter of antique firearms know the law so that they can educate an over zealous and under-informed LEO. I carry a small photocopy of the relevant antique section of the law so they can read it with their own eyes and know exactly where to look if they want to verify what my paper says.
The other thing I'd recommend is that every shooter of antique firearms know the law so that they can educate an over zealous and under-informed LEO. I carry a small photocopy of the relevant antique section of the law so they can read it with their own eyes and know exactly where to look if they want to verify what my paper says.
Yes well thank goodness your freind isnt the LAW.
No offence but i dont trust procecutors any more than cops when it comes to decideing my Guilt.
They get advancement in there Jobs by getting convictions and base there interpretation of the laws based on what they think they can get convictions on.
I agree to be discreat bush packing cause knowing my luck your buddy would be the guy id end up with in court.
Just cause you think hes Smart dont make him right.
Wrongly or rightfully the functionality of justice system often proxies a great deal of power to crown prosecutors in the laws' interpretation and subsequent execution. In many ways they are the"Law". Many important cases are plea bargined with only judgement of prosecution and have very little input if any from a judge. I would not necessarily put my faith into a judge either as these are are often promoted senior crown prosecuters. I certainly don't mean to imply there not reasonable lawyers or judges but you really take your chances when the system is based on subjective interpretations of the books.
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