question about dog catching grouse

burnt_servo

burnt_servo

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well I finally got a dog [ a red stumpy tailed cattle dog ] .....

anyway she has a thing for grouse ..... and she points at birds like a regular "pointer" , but she has never failed to catch and kill any grouse [ or rabbits for that matter] that we come across .......

so my question , is it considered harassing wildlife if I take her grouse hunting during the season , and have her trained to catch , kill and retrieve small animals like grouse and rabbits ?
 
Its kind of a fine line you walk when you have a dog that kills things. You always have to aware and watch out for other peoples animals. If your dog gets a hold of somebodies Yorkie or similar small breed, you may find yourself having your dog put down. My heeler couldnt be trusted around small animals and in the end it was his undoing. I wish I had been more on top of it when i first noticed the behavior. That was a lesson learned the hard way.
 
Well I can tell you from experience the dog will be that way until the day he dies. You will never truly break him of it. Let him practice his trade as long as you are in his presence, have a hunting licence, the season is open and you don't allow him to take more than the daily limit I would say your good to go. Other times of the year you will have to control his activities the best you can. Two of my labs were that way. They were died in the wool hunting dogs, and if they could get a scent on it they were after it. It either flew, ran faster than the dog, or got caught and fetched. And your absolutely right, when they come to you they are as proud as can be with what they have brought you. Every year when we hunted pheasants at Pelee the dogs always brought us pheasants they caught on there own. And they were very proud of there accomplishment.

If you let him run at large and he is fetching home critters and birds, then that could be considered harassing game. Here in Ontario for example dogs running at large chasing deer can be shot.
 
no worries about small dogs or other pets , or even chickens , domestic geese and ducks ........ she is very calm and polite when out on walks , to everyone .... on or off leash .

the only time she has ever growled is when I have food and I am feeding her by hand , and another dog approaches , but only with me . other people can feed her and the same dog she previously growled at without issue. [ it is a heeler thing ]

she also listens extremely well . she is also insanely smart ...

it was just a thought that ran through my head as I watched her flush out a grouse , then leap through the air and grab it like some dogs grab a tennis ball .

she then trotted back with the dead bird , proud of what she did .
her former owner told me that when he had his farm , she would regularly bring back rabbits .
 
Got Juice? said:
I have a Giant Schnauzer that does the same thing :) I make sure to keep him on leash when walking. the tough part is, they are so proud of their 'catch' and contribution of food to the house.
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really off topic ... but giant Schnauzers are terrific! although they may be a little too "clever" for their own good. I live in a neighborhood (north GTA) where we have one giant Schnauzer and several Russian Terriers that get walked in the neighborhood (there are other Russian Terriers that pretty much stay within their gated homes and don't go for "walks") ... dammed if I can tell them apart in the evening when they are out for a walk .. although the Schnauzer seems a lot more engaged (in a positive fashion) with people he meets on the street .. would be on my (and my daughter's) short list for a dog if swmbo ever gets dog friendly
 
AP said:
really off topic ... but giant Schnauzers are terrific! although they may be a little too "clever" for their own good. I live in a neighborhood (north GTA) where we have one giant Schnauzer and several Russian Terriers that get walked in the neighborhood (there are other Russian Terriers that pretty much stay within their gated homes and don't go for "walks") ... dammed if I can tell them apart in the evening when they are out for a walk .. although the Schnauzer seems a lot more engaged (in a positive fashion) with people he meets on the street .. would be on my (and my daughter's) short list for a dog if swmbo ever gets dog friendly
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Great dogs. They are a working breed and do need excercise. Once grown they eat a little less than a Lab. My GS is 30" at his withers... and at 165lbs, imposing is a good word. Very protctive of the family unit, and people that you tell him are ok to be friendly with.

Teach them well, and they are amazing. Some of their natural instincts are almost telepathic in how they respond to you.

God have mercy on anyone invading my house. Or wishing to do my family harm. Forget about the guns :) at max speed of 55km/h hitting you with 165lbs, plus teeth etc... the only work i will need to do is dial 911 and wait for the police and the paramedics.
 
I was told by a CO that my dog can only retrieve what I shoot.
The dog can't hunt.
That was a decade ago.
Has anything changed?
 
If you dog is jumping into the air and grabbing birds, you cannot shoot at flushed birds safely. Pretty much makes it the dogs hunt not yours. You say the dog points, but then grabs anyway, the "point" mustn't be something you can rely on. I'd suggest some serious training or a new dog and start off right.
 
Longwalker said:
If you dog is jumping into the air and grabbing birds, you cannot shoot at flushed birds safely. Pretty much makes it the dogs hunt not yours. You say the dog points, but then grabs anyway, the "point" mustn't be something you can rely on. I'd suggest some serious training or a new dog and start off right.
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what I am learning about her is this , she will point and hold a point at all birds outside of her strike zone .....
she will also hold a point a chicken wings and continues to point at them until you debone them share with her ..... I don't know if it is related , but she only does this with chicken wings or fired chicken .

grouse is a different thing to her ....... her head will turn , her left leg will lift and BANG she is gone and seconds later she has a grouse in her mouth .

I really had no plans on actually shooting anything just making sure it was dead and packing it for her while she hunts for another .....

and remember this is a dog bred for herding .......

not known or hunting or pointing ....

the only thing I can think of is this is a throw back to her dingo ancestors [ she can turn her head back around like a dingo , and her head shape, jaw shape and teeth are the same as what you would find in a dingo .... she also very rarely barks but makes a lot of vocalisations and howls on a very regular basis at various volumes , like a dingo] .
 
legi0n said:
I was told by a CO that my dog can only retrieve what I shoot.
The dog can't hunt.
That was a decade ago.
Has anything changed?
Click to expand...

It may be the same here in Ontario. I honestly don't know. If true I would strongly suggest that all CO's attend retriever club training sessions and anywhere else there is a gathering of hunters and dogs, and explain to the dogs that they are only to retrieve game shot by their master. Once a dog is off leash despite extensive training, whistles and electronic collars a hunter has limited control over what his dog does or does not do. Dogs have a mind and will of there own.

Many of the new CO's are very book smart, and only seeing situations in black and white. If it isn't in the book there screwed on how to deal with it as they have very little in the way of common sense and good judgement skills. Telling a man his hunting dog can only retrieve game he shot indicates to me that CO greatly lacks any knowledge on hunting with dogs.
 
burnt_servo said:
what I am learning about her is this , she will point and hold a point at all birds outside of her strike zone .....
she will also hold a point a chicken wings and continues to point at them until you debone them share with her ..... I don't know if it is related , but she only does this with chicken wings or fired chicken .

grouse is a different thing to her ....... her head will turn , her left leg will lift and BANG she is gone and seconds later she has a grouse in her mouth .

I really had no plans on actually shooting anything just making sure it was dead and packing it for her while she hunts for another .....

and remember this is a dog bred for herding .......

not known or hunting or pointing ....

the only thing I can think of is this is a throw back to her dingo ancestors [ she can turn her head back around like a dingo , and her head shape, jaw shape and teeth are the same as what you would find in a dingo .... she also very rarely barks but makes a lot of vocalisations and howls on a very regular basis at various volumes , like a dingo] .
Click to expand...

If what others have suggested is true, and your dog doing the killing is in fact harassing wild life (I guess your dog doesnt have a hunting license eh? lol) then I think the best course of action would be to keep her on a leash when out in the bushes where grouse may happen to be... Besides, its not like shes gonna know if its in season or not...
 
Does anyone else besides me think its a bad suggestion to "keep the dog on a leash" while hunting? I did that once, and my GODDAMNED DOG lunged at a grouse I didn't see about 3 feet away in a branch about a foot off the ground. I lost my balance, and when I fell, my loaded (but not cocked) shotgun got a FOUR INCH GOUGE about 1/2" deep on the beautiful wood stock, and a dent in the left barrel of the shotgun that rendered it unusable. I also (while trying my best to stop the fall the whole time I was falling, I ended up skinning out my elbow almost to the bone. Had I been drunk, I am sure I would have landed unhurt!! ) Needless to say..............................that's the last time I ever "leashed" a hunting dog to my body WHILE CARRYING A GUN. Come to think of it, it's the last time he went bird hunting with me also......
 
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