Question about Model 70 actions...

I

ILoveBigRacks

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Tried the search function to see if this was previously beaten to death but couldn't find anything.

Having never owned a Winchester bolt gun, I'm a bit curious as to the different Model 70 action types as far as feeding goes.

It seems there is a CRF (controlled round feed), Push feed, or a CRPF (controlled round push feed). From what I've been able to gather, the CRF actually grabs the casing and controls the feed (duh) into the chamber and then also controls the ejection to a greater degree, ie: force of ejection vs. force of bolt throw back. Is this an accurate summary?

The push feed doesn't grab the casing but rather pushes it up the feed ramp into the chamber?


Does the CRF action mean that you can't drop a cartridge into an open receiver and just push it forward into the chamber if you don't have the mag charged? Does the cartridge HAVE to be picked up out of the magazine to feed properly?


What then is the CRPF? I know what it stands for but how does it differ from the other two?

What are your preferences and why?
 
Controled feed is best from the magazine , end of story. If you push a controled round feed, the extractor has to jump the base of the case to be in proper position, I always feed from the mag with these.
Push feed , is just that, and a solid ring of steel surrounds the case.
They say push feed has an edge on accuracy, due to the positioning of the round being the same each time, and can vary a bit with the claw type both jobs.
I have had both , and can say for sure , that the push feed is quite accurate. Who knows why they switched back, I think it was the Africa wanna be hunters that made it happen:D
Frank
 
Does the CRF work properly if you just drop a cartrdge into the receiver rather than feeding it up from the mag? Does the Push Feed feed reliably enough from the magazine?

Or is it one or the other, neather good for both functions? Just curious as if I ever buy a Model 70, I'd like one that can both feed reliably from the magazine as well as function properly when I'm just dropping a cartridge into the receiver of an unloaded rifle.
 
Reliable feeding has more to do with mag feed lips/action feed rails/follower and spring then whether controlled or push. The bolt can not pick up the case if it is not positioned properly in the mag.

The CRF is best defined by Mausers. Trying to close a bolt over a chambered rd might just break the extractor. That can be modified but is not part of the orig. design use.

A CRPF is simply an open bolt face with an extractor that can jump over the rim. This can be found on several actions including Savage (yes, they make such a bolt) and Rugers.

Supposed to give you the assured function should you need to run your rifle upside down but also the ability to drop one in the chamber and close the bolt.

I guess there was a time when an African hunter that was picked up and hung upside down by a very angry elephant had to keep shooting.

I hate having to push a rd into the mag first before feeding so either use a push feed or modify the CRF to a CRPF.

Jerry
 
Over the years, I have owned enough rifles that I would never suffer if no new ones came to reside with me again. They have been push feed and CRF. A few of the CRF were such, that if you dropped a loaded round into the chamber and then tried to close the bolt, it was impossible. [Yes, I know that a gunsmith can modify this for a nominal fee :p ] Other CRF rifles would allow the bolt to be closed on a loaded round inserted into the chamber. I deplore the first system, since I often have occasion to drop one in for a quick shot at game. Having to put a cartridge in the magazine first is noisy and irritating to my way of thinking.:mad: I own primarily push feed rifles these days, since I cannot see any real-world advantage tp CRF rifles, even in Dangerous game situations. My 700 Remingtons will feed in any position I am likely to find myself. Both Ruger and Winchester CRF rifles will close on a round if you drop it in the chamber, so it's probably a moot point. Accuracy? Many say that Push-feed rifles have a slight edge, and I'm inclined to lean that way, but have no empirical evidence to prove that. Regards, Eagleye.
 
Thanks for the input guys. That was basically what I getting at. I too like to be able to just drop a round in and chamber it without having to actually feed it down into the magazine. If a Win Model 70 action with the CRF will indeed do that then I guess the push feed vs. CRF for me is a stalemate without either really posing an advantage over the other.

Thanks again,
ILBR
 
You CAN drop a cartridge into almost any CRF aciotn and close it up.

This is accomplished by depressing the blade extractor as you chamber a round. Some people have mantoned that you can break the blade that way...I am sure it has happened, but I've never seen it.

On the other hand, with a modern CRF such as a Ruger orWinchester, you can just drop the shell in and go.

I far prefer the CRF over the PF in a hunting rifle.:)
 
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Thanks Dan, I odn't need to see it. I shoud lhave said I KNOW it can happen, but it hasn't to me.:)

And I also think that you woudl be hard pressed to break a good, new blade, by do ing that, but I could be wrong.

In any case, the modern CRF's don't seem to need it, anyway.:)
 
The Mauser extractor has a relatively thin hook with very little approach angle. It was never intended to jump over the rim of a cartridge when it was designed. Nonetheless, it takes very little to get it to do so.
The M70 has a much thicker hook with a long bevel on the front. It will easily snap over the rim of a cartridge loaded into the chamber ahead of the extractor.
I have always felt that any rifle which fed well, shot well, extracted the fired case and flung it clear, was a good rifle regardless of the make or design. Some designs may make this happy state of affairs more likely but this doesn't mean others can't work as well. regards, Bill.
 
Double feeds are impossible in a CRF.

Double feeds are possible with a push feed.

Avoiding double feeds can be critical in certain situations. If you're just out deer hunting then no sweat.
 
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