Question about original 44 Russian cartridges

Win 38-55

Win 38-55

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
42   0   0
I've been pouring through Charles Pate's Smith & Wesson American Model and am surprised at the variety of cartridges that were available for the 44 Russian. Some had 246 grain bullets, others had 255 grain bullets. There were both black powder cartridges and later on, smokeless cartridges made for the 44 Russian (to my amazement). I cannot find, however, much in the way of information regarding number of grains of black powder used in the various cartridges, or velocities.

Question: Has anyone here fired some original 44 Russian black powder cartridges over a chronograph? or taken an original 44 Russian black powder cartridge apart to weigh both the powder charge and the bullet? I bought some Goex FFFg this past week to make some chronograph measurements, but I'd love to compare them with results from original cartridges. It would be helpful to know also the cartridge company and the barrel length.
 
Dont forget the 44 S&W Cartridge thats another rd altogehter so ive read!
I think its the same as the 44 American.

I have a sweet S&W DA 44 S&W Antique marked gun it has a 1 inch and 9/16th long cylinder and a much more beefy latch than the 44 Russian DAs.

Its Marked on the side of the Barrel *44 S&W CTG* the gun ser # is in the 51000s but just makes the CFC cut off date.
 
For right now, I'd like to find out more about the 44 Russian cartridge specifically. Venturino has a bit of info, but no original ballistics. Furthermore, 23 grains of modern black powder isn't necessarily the same as 23 grains of vintage black powder. For this reason, I'd like to get some actual chronograph data for one or two original cartridges of the 44 Russian.
 
When I had my Reichsrevolver I made up a mild load of a 240 grain cast lead bullet over 16 grains of Goex FFFg in a Starline .44 Russian case. I didn't have a chronograph but I seem to recall reading that this load would do somewhere around 650 fps (like I said, a mild load!).

Here's some reloading data using modern components and meant for modern guns.

http://ww w.accuratepowder.com/data/PerCaliber2Guide/Handgun/Standarddata/44Cal(10.97mm)/44%20Russian%20Page%20130.pdf
 
44 S&W Russ and Am are non interchangeable.
From WRA Cat 1896 bt 255 gr pdr 23 gr BP, smokeless load available.
DCCo 1915 bt 255 gr pdr 25 gr BP
Kynoch 1926 bt 246 gr pdr 18 gr BP vel 700 fps, also 5.5 gr Revolver Neonite.
 
Thanks for that info. If I had an original BP cartridge, I'd fire it off through the chrono. As it is, I think I'll just have to cram 23 grains of FFFg in a starline case, not seat the bullet very deep to do this, and then chronograph the results.
 
Kirk, if youre looking to pick up a couple of original cartridges i know of a fellow that might just have a few.
 
For people new to this site or new to reloading BP cartridges i will try to give my .02 cents....this is a safety related post......The best/safest/most acc. way to reload any BP cart. is the following....determine OAL with the bullet your have selected....measure with a vernier the amount of bullet inside case neck(with another bullet)...leave vernier with that dimension.....use drop tube to throw varying amounts of black powder until powder fills case to the bottom of bullet with NO airspace...this is done with the other end of the vernier, which is already setup for the depth measurement, you now have the amount of powder to load your round, make sure you are using a bullet that has lots of BP lube on it or you will complicate things by needing a lube cookie. Measuring the amount of powder in an orig. or any other load is of no benefit here as the bullet and the case used as well as the OAL. will be different and of no benefit to you for reloading. The older ammo may well produce higher vel. as the older BPs. were better/more refined then todays.
 
Ben, I can't fit 23 grains of FFFg into a Starline case and still seat the bullet to the proper depth. Given that I will compact the powder as usual, but will have to settle for a longer O.A.L. Why would it be unsafe to have a longer O.A.L. provided I can still fit the cartridge into the chamber and rotate the cylinder?
 
i guess you couldnt get some Balloon head cases eh?

Someone must have some.
Ive got a box of 45 colt full Balloon head cases im saveing for the heavy 40 Gr BP loads.

I hoard my Balloon head cases like a pack rat tho :D
 
sportee said:
Kirk, if youre looking to pick up a couple of original cartridges i know of a fellow that might just have a few.
Click to expand...

I hate to think about what I'd have to pay for those. They'd probably set me back $20 everytime I pulled the trigger. Of course, if he was willing to donate one or two for the sake of science and the curiosity of the fellows on CGN .......
 
Sportee get this man some cartridges! Heck I'll chip in a few bucks to keep Win 38-55 producing data and threads.

Thanks for sharing it is appreciated.
 
There is no problem with a longer oal, as long as it works, if you can't fit as much in as you want you can drop tube, vibrate, and finally use you expander die to compress powder........I would instead switch to Swiss 3fg. if you're not already using it, it will duplicate velocity more closely and has added up to 100fps. for me in some loadings and is much cleaner burning.
 
Well, it looks like i will be moving into the 44R club as well...i'll give the fellow an email and see if he has any loose cartridges...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom