Question for M14 Doctor re TRW M14

A

albertacowboy

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I have a friend with an all-matching TRW M14, who wants to sell it to fund a new bolt-action rifle purchase. He is grandfathered as the registered owner, whereas I have no such grandfathering privileges. If I paid the costs to purchase a new LRB receiver and the parts, and have all the TRW parts changed over to the new receiver by a gunsmith who is grandfathered, could said gunsmith then buy from my friend or destroy the TRW receiver, leaving me with a new legal LRB M14 with all TRW parts?

If such a plan was legally possible, would the TRW parts be suitable. My friend only ever fired surplus 7.62 ammo, so would the new receiver likely require a new barrel for safe headspacing to fire commercial .308?

Many thanks!
 
the headspace would end up being .308 only is my guess. and yes, i can facilitate the entire process. please email me and we can discuss details. the parts should be pretty much a direct swap over with some fitting required, ie, lapping in bolt, correctly fitting oprod ect.
 
Personally I think it would be a shame to part out this rifle. I'm sure the M-14 Dr can provide US GI/ high quality aftermarket parts for your build. You will likely end up with a better rifle (hand fitted) and the numbers won't match anymore without the reciever anyway.
 
powmia56 said:
Can you point us at a citation from the gun laws for this? I am curious as to how removing some interchangeable parts from a rifle could change it's classification.
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I think what came out is a full 12.3 m14 is classified as a converted auto. If you remove all the parts, including the parts that make it 'converted', the receiver now becomes full auto. Canadian gun laws a thier best. I'm not sure of section in the legislation that would cover this but i seem to remember that that's what the CFC has told some people attempting to transfer a receiver only
 
i know of several 12(3) card holders with m14 usgi receivers registered as receiver only.
let's get facts, before we all start guessing.

in my opinion, it would be FANTASTIC use of a firearm that can't and won't ever be legal to use again. I see no point in keeping such a fine rifle as a paper weight. Swapping the parts to a useable, non restricted receiver, allows that rifle to be used again, which is what it was meant for.

if you want to do the trw swap, p.m. me, it is an affordable alternative option and will no doubt be one fine rifle once finished.
 
i checked out that thread and find it very interesting that the issue in that thread is happening in ontario. I have not been made aware of any issue like this from folks that have done this conversion and ended up with a stripped receiver, most from bC and Alberta when i check my notes..
perhaps sending photos of the still welded selector switch lug to show that it has not been "completely" stripped might sort out the issue as the receiver remains a converted auto (by cfc standards). Now if in all thier silliness they assumed when you said stripped receiver, that ALL parts were stripped, this would give you a full auto receiver as the welded bits would be stripped, leaving a selector lug with a hole in it.

aks them to clarify this and provide photos that the selector lug is still welded. if i had crap loads of money and didn't care how i spent it, I'd take them to court over it, the ramifications of what they are trying to decide here would absolutely bite them in the ass and as mentioned in that other thread...... open pandora's box on many of thier other rulings.
 
M14Doctor said:
in my opinion, it would be FANTASTIC use of a firearm that can't and won't ever be legal to use again. I see no point in keeping such a fine rifle as a paper weight. Swapping the parts to a useable, non restricted receiver, allows that rifle to be used again, which is what it was meant for.
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With all due respect I couldn't agree less. A numbers matching TRW M14 has no value as a shooter but it is a collectible artifact. It's like parting out a numbers matching Hemi Cuda.

One of my other interests is vintage motorcycles and I often use ebay to find the parts I need. People will part out a very good clean example of a given bike to make a few extra dollars selling it. You can at least argue there that it increases the quality of the survivors if the numbers dwindle. With this gun you are only creating a mixed batch with no more value than the sum of the parts. If even that much. That TRW won't be cheap. Everything is used. It has certainly been cycled many times.

I read over and over here that an M14 fan is best off to buy a chinese reciever and mixed parts to end up with an economical shooter that is of better quality than a Springfield M1A. The primary reasoning for this is the hammer forged reciever. If one cannot use the M14 reciever and the other GI (or better) parts are available anyway what is the point?

Buy the LRB reciever, a new GI bolt, op rod, gas system, trigger group etc, an aftermarket barrel, guide rod, spring and piston. It will all be basically new and then you'll have something.

Put the TRW parts on the new reciever and you have 50 year old used parts on a new reciever.

This of course is only my opinion.
 
the problem Seafury, with all due respect, is that when..... ever..... have you seen an "all matching numbers" USGI M14 rifle? If by that we are to assume that the serial number from the heel of the receiver was machine engraved.... not electropencilled, but machine engraved by the manufacturer , onto each of the major components, then I would agree with you 100%, it would be a crying shame to render such a rifle to parts.

However, in all my research and all my handling of these rifles.... I have never seen such an animal. I have seen electropencil numbers on USGI bolts, which denote the national guard unit they were issued to originally. BUT those of us who know the history of these rifles when they were imported here, KNOW that these rifles came from Isreal, not the U.S. and a great many do not have the parts they went to Isreal in them. Most are in fact mix matched parts to achieve a better rifle..... ie: take the best of the parts from all the ifles and build a bunch that are better hehehe essentially that's my take on it.

So, to say you have an all matching numbered TRW........ I don't buy it.
to say you have an ALL TRW is another thing and I do not believe that this make the rifle any more valuable in canada as compared to an "all" winchester or "all" HR parts.

to a 12(3) collector, sure....... but again, that doesn't apply here as the fellow wants to build a quality rifle from quality parts...... and the answer to his question is YES, you can do that, easily i might add.

To say or to suggest that the USGI parts are plentiful enough that tearing down a 12(3) to build a better rifle is a waste of time..... is simply wrong.
there does not exist a supplier for USGI parts in this country and only now are we seeing tidbits of new manufacture parts coming from 7.62 firearms.com in the states. There is no official word on whether we will be able to order trigger groups and usgi spec bolts for import from this company. You CAN NOT at this time source a usgi bolt/barrel from the states unless it comes on a built rifle or unless you jump through import export hoops that make those parts prohibitivley expensive.

you can however, do a full swap over from a 12(3) CA m14 to the norinco, LRB, springfield, fulton receiver's and have a fine rifle, with real value...... and you can actually take it out of your house and shoot it rather than feel good about yourself because you can take your 12(3) out of the safe and fondle it once in a while..... maybe pose for the mirror??? I am jesting with you, please don't be offended.

and parts...... have you all seen what usgi bolts/barrels/trigger groups sell for these days in the EE ? and how very seldom they come up for sale?
the last ALL TRW rifle i built onto a norinco receiver was for a gentleman who has 3 12(3) m14 rifles and decided, because the TRW was the nicest, to have a fine rifle built from those parts. He is reliving the days when he could use his M14 rifles and why would any of us begrudge him for that...... guns are meant to be used, not put up on pedestals and worshipped.


I'll add one more thing...... 95% of the "mixed" usgi parts or complete usgi "swaps" i have done have ALL produced excellent shooting reliable rifles.... regardless of the claim that you have a rifle with 50 year old parts....... it has been my experience that most of the 12(3) CA rifles i have come across have been in excellent serviceable condition all around and for a guy doing the usgi bolt swap...... did you all know that it is bette to find a used usgi bolt with some wear than to use a new from wrap usgi bolt?
did you know that many times a new from wrap usgi bolt WILL not safely lap into a norinco reciever? yet i see countless gun nuts falling over themselves everytime a "new from wrap" usgi bolt comes up for 300-400.00 on the EE.......
anyhow, we can agree to disagree
but the answer to the original poster's question, is yes, it can be done, it doesn't cost a mint to do so, and I absolutely , personally GARAUNTEE you will be pleased with the result.
 
M14Doctor said:
the problem Seafury, with all due respect, is that when..... ever..... have you seen an "all matching numbers" USGI M14 rifle? If by that we are to assume that the serial number from the heel of the receiver was machine engraved.... not electropencilled, but machine engraved by the manufacturer , onto each of the major components, then I would agree with you 100%, it would be a crying shame to render such a rifle to parts.

However, in all my research and all my handling of these rifles.... I have never seen such an animal. I have seen electropencil numbers on USGI bolts, which denote the national guard unit they were issued to originally. BUT those of us who know the history of these rifles when they were imported here, KNOW that these rifles came from Isreal, not the U.S. and a great many do not have the parts they went to Isreal in them. Most are in fact mix matched parts to achieve a better rifle..... ie: take the best of the parts from all the ifles and build a bunch that are better hehehe essentially that's my take on it.

So, to say you have an all matching numbered TRW........ I don't buy it.
to say you have an ALL TRW is another thing and I do not believe that this make the rifle any more valuable in canada as compared to an "all" winchester or "all" HR parts.

to a 12(3) collector, sure....... but again, that doesn't apply here as the fellow wants to build a quality rifle from quality parts...... and the answer to his question is YES, you can do that, easily i might add.

To say or to suggest that the USGI parts are plentiful enough that tearing down a 12(3) to build a better rifle is a waste of time..... is simply wrong.
there does not exist a supplier for USGI parts in this country and only now are we seeing tidbits of new manufacture parts coming from 7.62 firearms.com in the states. There is no official word on whether we will be able to order trigger groups and usgi spec bolts for import from this company. You CAN NOT at this time source a usgi bolt/barrel from the states unless it comes on a built rifle or unless you jump through import export hoops that make those parts prohibitivley expensive.

you can however, do a full swap over from a 12(3) CA m14 to the norinco, LRB, springfield, fulton receiver's and have a fine rifle, with real value...... and you can actually take it out of your house and shoot it rather than feel good about yourself because you can take your 12(3) out of the safe and fondle it once in a while..... maybe pose for the mirror??? I am jesting with you, please don't be offended.

and parts...... have you all seen what usgi bolts/barrels/trigger groups sell for these days in the EE ? and how very seldom they come up for sale?
the last ALL TRW rifle i built onto a norinco receiver was for a gentleman who has 3 12(3) m14 rifles and decided, because the TRW was the nicest, to have a fine rifle built from those parts. He is reliving the days when he could use his M14 rifles and why would any of us begrudge him for that...... guns are meant to be used, not put up on pedestals and worshipped.


I'll add one more thing...... 95% of the "mixed" usgi parts or complete usgi "swaps" i have done have ALL produced excellent shooting reliable rifles.... regardless of the claim that you have a rifle with 50 year old parts....... it has been my experience that most of the 1293) CA rifles i have come across have been in excellent serviceable condition all around and for a guy doing the usgi bolt swap...... did you all know that it is bette to find a used usgi bolt with some wear than to use a new from wrap usgi bolt?
did you know that many times a new from wrap usgi bolt WILL not safely lap into a norinco reciever? yet i see countless gun nuts falling over themselves everytime a "new from wrap" usgi bolt comes up for 300-400.00 on the EE.......
anyhow, we can agree to disagree
but the answer to the original poster's question, is yes, it can be done, it doesn't cost a mint to do so, and I absolutely , personally GARAUNTEE you will be pleased with the result.
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Not going to question your knowledge on the subject Doc and don't mean to come across as confrontational.

All TRW is good enough for me. I had one during those glorious days you speak of and wish I had kept it. Saw an H&R at the Calgary show two weekends ago sell for $1800.

There is a SA M1A for sale here with a serial number of 8155. It has GI parts and certainly a lower round count than the TRW. Take that and add the LRB reciever. Sweet. Yes the parts supply is drying up but it does exist.
 
no worries Seafury ;) i'm taking none of this personally, it is good discussion and it may answer questions for those trying to decide to go one way or another. I do not fault those who wish to keep these fine rifles as collectors.

it will shock many of you to know..... but in the past 5 years the MOST i have ever paid for a 12(3) usgi rifle is 1150.00 (and a whole lot of them have crossed my bench) , it was a mixed parts HR, with HR NM rear sights, NM front sight and SAK barrel, HR bolt...... no trw parts in the whole thing. It came with 5 pinned usgi mags, fiberglass new condition stock, bayonet, original issue sling, bandoleers and mag chargers. The barrels throat and muzzle wear readings of near zero at each end was the reason i purchased it at that amount. For rifles that started thier lives in canada as non restricted, hunting rifles if you will, retailing from 250.00 to 400.00 to have an inflated price of 1800.00 years later as a prohib .... is ridiculous in my opinion hehehe
 
M14Doctor said:
no worries Seafury ;) i'm taking none of this personally, it is good discussion and it may answer questions for those trying to decide to go one way or another. I do not fault those who wish to keep these fine rifles as collectors.

it will shock many of you to know..... but in the past 5 years the MOST i have ever paid for a 12(3) usgi rifle is 1150.00 (and a whole lot of them have crossed my bench) , it was a mixed parts HR, with HR NM rear sights, NM front sight and SAK barrel, HR bolt...... no trw parts in the whole thing. It came with 5 pinned usgi mags, fiberglass new condition stock, bayonet, original issue sling, bandoleers and mag chargers. The barrels throat and muzzle wear readings of near zero at each end was the reason i purchased it at that amount. For rifles that started thier lives in canada as non restricted, hunting rifles if you will, retailing from 250.00 to 400.00 to have an inflated price of 1800.00 years later as a prohib .... is ridiculous in my opinion hehehe
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OK here's the deal, next really decent USGI M14 that crosses your bench you offer to me at a profeit you can feel good about. Look I know I've ruffled a few feathers on here and I'm not trying to be the devils advocate by any means. I come from a family where after a good meal we chose a topic to disagree on and we get after it. I do not come away with hurt feelings. I do not carry a grudge. I am not always right and without provocation a lot of very informative detail is left out of the conversation.

I think that its really cool the way these rifles are gaining popularity with shooters. I'll never forget the way I was looked at by a few of the older guys when I went hunting with M14 equiped with the ART IV scope and M2 bipod. Yes I left the M6 off for that. Wish I had kept her.
 
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