Question for the Swiss Arms Classic owners ...

T

Tikka223

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I am thinking of selling off a few items to pick up a Swiss Arms Classic but before I take the 3000$ plunge I have a few questions. I understand its suppose to be the Rolex of black guns but still ...

What kind of accuracy can I expect from it? Honestly?

How bad does it chew up brass (I like to reload, but it becomes very frustrating when the brass gets really chewed up)?

9lbs!! That's heavy! Is the weight mostly up front or does it feel nicely balanced?

The barrel doesn't look super heavy. Do the groups open up considerably when the barrel heats up? Ex after 30 rounds?
 
Accuracy is great, but the same can be had with an AR15. The ticket is that you can't shoot your AR15 in the bush.

I've seen brass get a perpendicular ding about half way down the casing, but the most common thing is a partially squashed in top. Just have to be more careful reloading so that you don't fold that over in your decapping die.

Balance is front heavy. The plastic stock is substantially lighter than the busy front end.

I didn't really notice groups open up too much. If you're blasting away though you're probably not much interested in group size...
 
You'll get solid MOA accuracy with handloads or match ammo, 10 shot groups, not those wimpy 5 or 3 shot groups most people do. 2-3 MOA with bulk ammo (again, 10 round groups).

Brass is somewhat chewn up, but you can still easily get 3 to 4 reloads out of one. I haven't tried more than that, but I'm sure you could get several more (the biggest limitation being I'll usually loose the brass before I get more than 3 reloads through it).

9lbs? That's about what a non-sporter Lee Enfield weighs. Do some pushups and suck it up. ;) The balance point is right around where the handguard meets the receiver.

The groups don't open up significantly as the barrel heats up, although I haven't done any serious testing around this. I don't give much time between shots when I do my accuracy testing (i.e. take a shot and let the barrel cool off for two minutes), all rounds are fired in about 2 minutes. What I haven't tried is dumping 30 or 40 rounds, then shooting a group for accuracy... although this might be an interesting test to do this summer...
 
9lbs, more like 10lbs with the bipod removed to somewhat balance it, w/Rail and ACOG scope.

Accuracy is great like stated, shoots better than I do. Mags are affordable now.

Overall: Best Non Restricted in this country.
 
What these guys said 100%. Best NR bar none. QUALITY. It is pricey though, and you can acheive the same accuracy with an AR. Depends what your motives are overall. Love being able to shoot this on my property. Watch Canadaammo for mags, I got mine on sale a couple years ago. As said above too, they bang up the cases, but they form out during resize most of the time.
There are a few guys on here who are real authorities, think Steve Janes, and Kamphamster.
My SA is my "one gun", if I had to chose.
you won't regret it.
 
I was just thinking 9lbs is quite a bit more than the 7.5lbs advertized for the XCR-l that I have. Anyone know what the sight radius is on the Classic?
 
It is very front heavy, unlike the Carbine with the 17.9 inch barrel, which is almost perfectly balanced, but restricted. It will give you MOA accuracy, nothing better, its NOT a match grade rifle and a nicely tuned AR will out shoot it as far as accuracy. It will chew up brass, some worse than others, it leaves both a large dent in the side of the casing and really dings up the mouth of the brass, some to the point of not being able to reload. On average expect 5 reloads per brass, you can reload it the only issue when resizing if you use RCBS dies, the threads on the neck sizing pin often strip out as a lot of tension is placed on it. I switched to forster dies and have had no issues. It is rock solid reliable, runs like a fine swiss watch with good ammo. They really are worth the money. You can expect 30,000 rounds per magazine, and the barrel will start to deteriorate in accuracy after 30,000 rounds. They truly are wonderful rifles. no rifle is perfect, these come close.

Its one rifle you don't want to run steel cased ammo in, as you will deteriorate the parts much more quickly, and parts are not cheap for these rifles.
 
Another guy in the: my swiss arms is my "THE gun" category. I won't sell it, sights are some of the best irons available in the world. Probably wouldn't opt for the flattop version, as the diopter irons are great for most applications.

The barrle isn't a heavy barrel at all (it does taper from the chamber though) and i haven't experienced crazy stringing or anything when it gets hot.

One negative (sorta) is that the poi can change when you switch from shooting off the bipod to shooting off the mag or in classic unsupported prone, I solved this by removing the bipod (which also lightens the gun and improves the feel of the handguards imo) and simply only shoot off the mag.
 
There's at least 4-5 CGN'er that I know of who took the time & money to convert their restricted PE90 Carbines to 18.5''. (Rumour, the cost was about $900+ to get the whole deal done).
There's your perfectly balanced, accurate, extremely reliable Non-Restricted!
 
XCR is terribly off balanced to the front, heavy, unless shooting with a bipod most of the time and have a lock on AR mags, I'd avoid this set-up.
I have never owned the XCR, just handled so I don't have a clue what I'm talking about :)
 
One point about reloading. Yes it tends to leave a dent in the brass, but more importantly, the brass will land about 20-30 feet to the front right. You can expect to lose some of your brass with each outing. I know I always come back with less brass than I went out with. This thing ejects with some real force.
The stock bi pod will have more impact on group size than heating of the barrel. At least that has been my observation. I tend to support the rifle from the magazine rather than the forward hand guard because it seems to be sensitive to pressure on the barrel.
 
I have owned mine for 4 years, it always comes out with me.
- Best irons period.
- As reliable as it gets (4000 down the pipe now, not one hiccup in all that time).
- It is the one rifle I will never sell.
- Very accurate for a service rifle, especially at 300 yards.
- Screams quality, very finely crafted.

The bipod: Chuck it in the parts bin, never look at it again.
The weight: Suck it up buttercup.

Forgot to add: With irons its perfect. With optics they mount high on diopter models. The only magnified optic I have found to work for me on this rifle that's clean, light and does not feel like a compromise or piss me off while shooting is my Acog ta11 on a real SIG 551 detachable mount. Yes I still need the cheekpiece.
 
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It's a very solid well build rifle. Accuracy 1 moa with decent 62 grain ammo and optics. The machining in the bolt is very nice. It looks cool works very well, has decent accuracy for a piston rifle and includes some nice features. The folding stock is one of the few I like along with the trigger guard that moves out of the way.

The negatives are the built in bipod is more battle emergency than practical for target shooting, the cost and the fact it's basically a highly modified and updated AK type design from the 50s.

A Ruger mini14 target will be just as accurate although not as cool. In terms of accuracy an AR with SS match barrel and match trigger will slay the PE90. But the PE90 is still very nice, cool to own and non restricted.
 
So folks reload much for 223. Notice the brass pail at the range is usually full off 223s; not too many pick up their 223 brass.
 
Should I trade my xcr in for one? I got the barrel conversion for 762 but I find I only shoot the 223 anyways maybe I should sell the xcr and get a Swiss arms....
 
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