question on 357mag load with campro and hs-6

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luckey

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Hi Gurus,

I couldn't find the exact combinations in my manuals, on internet or here. So, I guess that warrants a post. Really appreciate any help as always.

Currently I have campro plated 158gr and HS-6, but none of my manuals, including hodgdon, has FMJ/TMJ, the closest I got is 158gr LRN. Others are all hornady bullets, should I just use the LRN data. They seem to be a little bit too light, 6-7gr, or I should use the hornady data 8-9.5gr with a longer OAL, say 1.61 vs 1.58?

Also, I got some strange shaped campro 148gr HBWC mixed in my order which has absolutely no data for HS-6.

Thanks!
 
Thanks Ganderite. this is for the 158gr I assume. by any chance you have data for the odd 148gr HBWC(plated)?

Also, for the primer, since I will be indoor 25 meters tops, would the regular pistol primer, or small rifle primer has that much difference in terms of accuracy compared to spm primer?

Ganderite said:
Load 7.5 to 9.0 gr. It will be more accurate with a magnum primer.
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HS-6 is one of those powders that works best at high pressure. it is not a good all round powder, like Unique or 231 or Universal.

I would never load 148s with HS6.

It performs better with a magnum primer. A rifle primer works well too, but a revolver may not set it off.
 
Thanks again Ganderite. will do the 158gr as suggested. I did save all the small rifle primers with my 627PC & 629 in mind. will find out how they work on the weekend and report back.
maybe I just ditch the 148s as it's only a few and came mixed in the 158s due to factory packaging issue obviously.

Ganderite said:
HS-6 is one of those powders that works best at high pressure. it is not a good all round powder, like Unique or 231 or Universal.

I would never load 148s with HS6.

It performs better with a magnum primer. A rifle primer works well too, but a revolver may not set it off.
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I burnt a bunch of 158 campros with HS-6. I used a max charge of 9.5grns and lit it with a dominion small rifle primer. 1050fps average from a 4.2" 686. I seat the campros right to the top of the cannelure, about 1.570". That's just me though...

As for the random bullets mixed in I don't think I have gotten a box of campro with at least one random projectile!
 
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thanks B! I don't think I will go that hot from the get-go.

Another newbie question, with the range at 7.5-9gr HS-6 on 158gr, do I need to do roll crimp, or the taper would be fine as I don't even know how to do roll crimp or what tool I need if I have to.
so far I have been loading lots of 9/40S&W/45acp. It's the first time I load 357mag/44spl/44mag. All my dies are LEE Deluxe 4-Die Set, except I swap out the power die to use Dillon power measure as I have 550B which I am happy with.
Is that the die will do its thing(taper or roll) based on the cartridge I am loading, in this case, 357mag/44spl/44mag, the respective die will apply roll crimp as they are revolver rounds?

BTW. Campro did also send me some data, but all look pretty warm/hot as I compared the 9/40/45 data, also the 357mag on HS-6(8-9.5gr, C.O.L 1.590, Roll Crimp specified), 44 Special 240gr with HS-6 is 7.1gr - 8.7gr, 44mag on HS-6 is 12-15.1(roll crimp as well). They said they will be posting their data online in a few weeks. So, it would be another source of reference.
 
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I think I might just answered my own question. loaded some dummy rounds @ 1.590", crimp right in the cannelure

IMAG0421_zpsldofsqjj.jpg



luckey said:
thanks B! I don't think I will go that hot from the get-go.

Another newbie question, with the range at 7.5-9gr HS-6 on 158gr, do I need to do roll crimp, or the taper would be fine as I don't even know how to do roll crimp or what tool I need if I have to.
so far I have been loading lots of 9/40S&W/45acp. It's the first time I load 357mag/44spl/44mag. All my dies are LEE Deluxe 4-Die Set, except I swap out the power die to use Dillon power measure as I have 550B which I am happy with.
Is that the die will do its thing(taper or roll) based on the cartridge I am loading, in this case, 357mag/44spl/44mag, the respective die will apply roll crimp as they are revolver rounds?

BTW. Campro did also send me some data, but all look pretty warm/hot as I compared the 9/40/45 data, also the 357mag on HS-6(8-9.5gr, C.O.L 1.590, Roll Crimp specified), 44 Special 240gr with HS-6 is 7.1gr - 8.7gr, 44mag on HS-6 is 12-15.1(roll crimp as well). They said they will be posting their data online in a few weeks. So, it would be another source of reference.
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Hey Luckey, are you aware that Hodgdon has an online reloading data center? I ask because HS-6 shows up in the loads for .357Mag for two of the options given for 158gn loads.

Hodgdon seldom lists plated bullets though. So that is an issue. And when they do they are Berrys.

As for the style of crimp neither the Berry or Campro use a cannelure groove. And a big issue with plated bullets is that the thin plating is more easily cut then on the thicker swaged jacketed bullets. So I'd suggest that you taper crimp them if you can or go with a VERY light roll crimp. So light that it's almost no crimp at all. This very issue is brought up in the FAQ's area at Berrys web sight on their plated bullets.

The last thing you want to do is run a crimp that is so tight that it cuts into the plating or crimps it enough to start a tear in the plating at the crimp. Do that and you risk the plating coming off during shooting and that affects your accuracy.
 
That fits in with the fellow that was selling Campro at the last gun show said. He sells a bunch of their bullets and communicates regularly with the factory. He didn't say HOW thick it was. Just that it was thicker and was suitable for full magnum velocities from handguns.
 
Hi BCRider, thanks. I go to hodgdon site a lot and also have a few manual, including hodgdon's that has the same data as the site(just want a hard copy handy on my loading station.
As you mentioned, the limited data(compared to other semi rounds) don't really have fmj, given on revolvers, hotter loads do work differently between fmj and cast(also need gas check). So, to be on the safe side, I thought I turn to here for sound advices as I always got.
As for the roll crimp on cannelure, as my earlier post with replied data from campro, they did specified roll crimp on cannelure. Of course, as I mentioned, the data campro provided does look on the warm/hot side(for me).
So, as the pic I posted, I measured the crimp on the 2 rounds federal factory ammo I left on purpose and did the similar on the dummy rounds which turned out just like you suggested, a light to medium roll crimp on the cannelure. It's definitely not cutting into anything.




BCRider said:
Hey Luckey, are you aware that Hodgdon has an online reloading data center? I ask because HS-6 shows up in the loads for .357Mag for two of the options given for 158gn loads.

Hodgdon seldom lists plated bullets though. So that is an issue. And when they do they are Berrys.

As for the style of crimp neither the Berry or Campro use a cannelure groove. And a big issue with plated bullets is that the thin plating is more easily cut then on the thicker swaged jacketed bullets. So I'd suggest that you taper crimp them if you can or go with a VERY light roll crimp. So light that it's almost no crimp at all. This very issue is brought up in the FAQ's area at Berrys web sight on their plated bullets.

The last thing you want to do is run a crimp that is so tight that it cuts into the plating or crimps it enough to start a tear in the plating at the crimp. Do that and you risk the plating coming off during shooting and that affects your accuracy.
Click to expand...
 
BCRider said:
That fits in with the fellow that was selling Campro at the last gun show said. He sells a bunch of their bullets and communicates regularly with the factory. He didn't say HOW thick it was. Just that it was thicker and was suitable for full magnum velocities from handguns.
Click to expand...

With a couple exceptions like the 148 HBWC at 0.002" their bullets are plated 0.008" thick. "Industry standard" (campro's wording) is 0.003".
 
I should have commented on the crimp - those were some of the first rounds that I reloaded and was swapping between .357 and .38SPL, so some of the first .357 crimps came out tight. I now only reload .357 from one set of dies and with a much lighter crimp. I do have another complete set of dies for .38 SPL but haven't reloaded any in months.
 
thanks again. that sounds perfect because I did compare my crimp with the Federal Factory Ammo. They are pretty close. So, I think I should be ok. after some thoughts, I will try to test from 7.6gr up to 9.4gr with .2 in between, also with CCI SPP and Dominion SRP. this would give me a good idea on what would work best/worst. should be fun. :)

Zedbra said:
I should have commented on the crimp - those were some of the first rounds that I reloaded and was swapping between .357 and .38SPL, so some of the first .357 crimps came out tight. I now only reload .357 from one set of dies and with a much lighter crimp. I do have another complete set of dies for .38 SPL but haven't reloaded any in months.
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I did that already, but found their data is warmer compared to the rounds I already have been loading(9/40/45), so it's always good to check here as well because we have lots of reload gurus here. The load Ganderite gave me is more mild.

BTW. made an impulse buy today @ Le Baron, 9LBs W231(found titegroup somewhere 10 minutes ago which is what I was looking for). Any data for 357mag campro 158gr plated and 44spl 240gr plated bullets? campro and hodgdon have data for 44mag, but not these two with w231.

Thanks.



Graveman said:
Campro has an updated website now. If you email them, they will send load data......

I highly recommend you do this.

:)
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Just came back with whole bunch of data. tested with HS-6 from 7.6gr to 9.4gr with 0.2gr increment. 5 rounds with each weight, and 3 out of 5 with small rifle primers, the other 2 with regular SPP. here are the findings. tests were done with 627PC, off hand, DA only @ 15 meters.

1. recoil. the recoil picks up a bit after 8.6gr, but even at 9.4gr, the recoil is still lighter than the federal 158 gr jacketed soft point. so, it's very managable.
2. @ 15 meters, the accuracy started to show after 8gr, with least the recoil, the accuracy is best @ 8.4 and 8.6gr for me. given the mild recoil, I like it even at 9.4gr. I think I have to test out 25 meters starting 8.4gr just to make sure it still holds up.
3. reliability. I got random light strike on both SPP and SRP(a shallower dent on the primer), but once I rotate the cylinder back and it fires without any issues. I never had issue with factory ammo, so I think it maybe has something to do with the mixed brass I use in the same cylinder which have different thickness of the base. have to test this with the same brass next time.

Overall, I like HS-6 on 357mag so far. Thanks again to everyone who helped here.
 
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