Question on store reloading components in the same cabinet

luckey

CGN frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
8   0   0
Hi, can I store powder, primer and complete cartridge in the same cabinet, but on different shelves?

I think I read somewhere(somehow couldn't find it now) that primer and powder can be stored in the same wood cabinet, as long as there are wood barriers, aka shelves between them. However, nowhere mention about ammo. Just wondering.

or still it's better to put the reloaded cartridge into locked ammo can and put them separately. In that case, does the ammo can have to be in another locked cabinet, or it's fine as long as the ammo can is locked?

Also, is it really mandatory to put the word "explosive" on the cabinet as I read somewhere?

Thanks!
 
My interpretation of the law is that primer and powder must be stored separately. Copied and pasted from this link - http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=158936.

I created a wooden box for my powder, and I reused the explosive sticker that was originally affixed to the box/parcel when the powder was shipped to Cabela's in Barrie. My primers are stored somewhere else in it's original container.


17. Propellants not exceeding 10 kg in their approved canisters, caddies and kegs may be stored on residential property, providing they are in a locked substantial magazine that is kept clean and used

exclusively for propellants. No federal licence or possession permit is required for this type of storage. The outside of the magazine must be marked with the word “explosive.” no flammable or highly combustible material may be stored in or near the magazine.

--------------------------------------------
percussion caps (primers):

Storage and possession
possession for own use

23 a reasonable number of percussion caps (primers) for one's own use, and not for sale, may be kept
on residential or other property, out of reach of children and away from heat and substances of a
flammable nature. Such storage must be separated from propellant storage in a locked container or
receptacle marked “explosives.”
no federal licence or permit to possess is required for such
storage.
 
Look at section 267 onwards of the explosives act. Some key things to consider.
Store powder and primers separate. Keep in original container. Note the difference between over 1Kg and under 1kg containers for dwellings, Consider storing your powder in an out building. In my case I store my primers and cartridges together and the powder in a separate cabinet in a shed. Also note the maximum amount of ammunition you can store (225kg) is based on the amount of powder and primer in each cartridge, not the total weight of the cartridge. A primer is assumed to be the equivalent of 0.1-0.3 gr powder. Example a .308 with 45 grains of powder would count as 45.3 grains with the primer. The bullet and case are ignored.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2013-211/index.html
 
Those are old regs, no wooden cabinet is required any more. Powders must be kept in their original containers. Powder and primers must be kept separately, like on different shelves.
 
Common sense would say store them separately. If there was a fire I think you could possibly deal a powder fire on it's own, add in 5 or 10k primers shooting all over the place at the same time and you would be ####ed.
 
Do primers explode when they are on fire? I thought it took impact to set them off?

Haha, good one. Sorry had to laugh. A few weeks ago, someone I know very well decided to set off a primer on the front porch by placing it in a kleenex and lighting it up.
That someone was very surprised how big the bang was from a wee little primer.
 
Darn, and I just made a box lol!

I thought the reason for the box was to ensure that firefighters can easily retrieve the box in case of a fire.

Agreed.
It's amazing how often this still has to be stated.



I see nothing in the regs stating that.
Please quote the section.
 
I can find the regs circ 1998. with the rules about the proper storage box and such. the only thing i can find that's changed is up to 25kg in a dwelling (used to be 10kg) So are all the old regs gone?
 
From a similar thread a few weeks ago:

I'm just going to go ahead and repost this every time this question is opened. Again.

I AM NOT A LAWYER AND THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE. But the new regulations are pretty loose, and pretty easy to interpret. This is my interpretation of them.


What's a storage unit?



It's not your house or apartment. It's not a dwelling, container or place in your house or apartment. Did you build a nice box to put your stuff in, and keep it in your reloading room or a closet or the garage or whatever? Good for you. But it's not a storage unit.

EDIT: I just want to restate this, because I found it super confusing when I first read the act. The definition of a storage unit essentially means that, if it's something you have inside your dwelling, it's not a storage unit.



What's a licensed user?



Does your PAL/RPAL specify that you need to keep your ammo in a magazine? No? Then that should be a clue as to what 'license' is for the purposes of the act. It's not your PAL. So, unless you have a license to deal with explosives, you are an unlicensed user.


How can I store my ammo? I like ammo.



We've already discussed what a storage unit is. Are you using a storage unit? Almost certainly not, unless you have a bunker out back. So you are probably storing it in your dwelling. Let's look at the requirements for storing ammo in a dwelling:



OK, so we can store up to about 500 lb of ammo. This doesn't include the brass, projectiles or packaging-- just the explody stuff like powder and primers, so that's a LOT.

You need to store it away from fire. DUH.

You must not give unauthorized people access to the cartridges. What does this mean? IANAL but it sounds to me like you have to have some reasonable measure of security for your ammo. In a locked box or a locked room, and not on the kitchen table, would be my guess. But like I said, I'm not a lawyer and this isn't legal advice. I keep mine locked up the same way I keep my other incredibly rare and expensive and difficult to find things locked up. ;)

And that is literally all the regs for ammo storage in the act, if you're not storing them in a storage unit. TA-DA!



Where can I store powder and primers? There's some room in the fridge.

Once again, you are almost certainly an unlicensed user. So:



So same deal. You can store powder and primers in a storage unit or a dwelling. Are you storing them a in a storage unit? No? You have them in your reloading room or in a closet or whatever? OK then, all you need to worry about is sections 299 - 304. Let's look at those.



OK, so keep your powder in the jars or jugs it came with and don't be a damned fool and dump all your primers in a big jar.


How much powder and how many primers can I have? A lot? A little? I want a lot.

This is covered by sections 300 - 301. There's a lot of text, so I'll just summarize:

1) I'm about to lay out some max quantities. Remember that the max you can have on hand includes any powder you have sitting in loaded cartridges

2) Are you in a detached dwelling? I.e.: something other than a place where a bunch of different families are living? Like, you live in a regular house? Then you can have 25 kg, of which no more than 10 kg is black powder

3) Oh you're NOT in a detached dwelling? You're a poor urban apartment dweller? Sucks to be you . Then you can have 20 kg of powder in total, UNLESS you have ANY OF IT in a container that holds more than 1 kg. Then you can only have 5 kg in total.

There's an interesting passage earlier:



Wait! So I can have one billion primers? According to the act, you can have ONE BILLION primers if you want, as long as they're in their original packaging. Use them as furniture, I don't care.


What about all the crazy storage requirements? Mahogany boxes with letters of flame a thousand feet high or whatever?

No. These are the requirements laid out in the act for storage in a dwelling:



That's IT. The stuff below is for when you store stuff in a storage unit which, by definition, is not something you can have inside a dwelling.


Who can make ammo? Can grandma reload? What about my dog?

This stuff is laid out in section 305 and is super long, so I'll just summarize here:

1) You must be 18, or you must be supervised by someone who is 18
2) The place you're doing the reloading must have a means of escape to let everyone leave quickly. A door and some stairs is probably a pretty good means.
3) Be careful when handling explody stuff to try to make sure it doesn't burn or explode! There's nothing specific here, but I'd say at a minimum put out that damned cigar.
4) Keep the labels on your powder and primer containers. We've already covered the fact that you need to keep them in the original packaging so this one should be a no brainer
5) You can't have more than 2 kg of smokeless powder within 1 m of your loading area. This is just reloading common sense. Put your powder away when you're not working with it.
6) You can't have more than 500 g of black powder within 1 m of your reloading area.
7) No incendiaries or 'military components or devices'. I have no idea what that last bit is but this won't apply to 99.9% of reloaders.
8) No more than 150 primers/percussion caps in the loading mechanism at any time. This is also just reloading common sense, IMO. Doesn't mean you can't have spare filled primer tubes hanging out and ready to go.
 
that's not true. In an attached dwelling, if any of the container is larger than 1 KG, the MAX you can storge is 5KG. the link below is directly from NRC.
for example, if you only buy 1LB package, you can have as much as 20KG in your apartment. however, if you get one 8LB tube, then you can only buy max 3 more 1LB tubes which makes up to 11LBs(roughly 5KG).

https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/explosives/acquisition-storage-sale/9829





So someone that lives in a attached dwelling can't buy vihtavuori powder because it comes in 2kg containers?
 
I got this from CSSA, but can't find it on NRC web site. It says primer and powder can be in the same cabinet, but MUST be on different shelves(barries) with 3/4 inch thickness at least.
I am building a heavy duty workbench and cabinet with 2x4(1.5 inch thick) plus 1/2 inch plywood as shelves so that I can hold even all the bullets. Hence the questions on the thread.

http://www.cdnshootingsports.org/legal_info_for_reloaders.html

Then I am still unclear if the finished cartridge can be one of the shelves where I will put powder or primer. As I read the powder storage, it says, powder can only be in original package or finished cartridges, does it mean it's ok to put powder and finished cartridge on the same shelf and then primers on the other shelf? again, my shelving is like 2.5 inch thick.


Agreed.
It's amazing how often this still has to be stated.



I see nothing in the regs stating that.
Please quote the section.
 
I know as it stated it's posted on 1998, but other than, nothing else in writing officially. on NRC web site, it says very clearly it's ok to be on different shelves when storing in a storage unit, but didn't say anything about dwelling.

and if to store all 3 things(ammo, powder and primers) completely separated, can they be put into different plastic ammo cans which is technically portal, and "unsafe" even locked?

https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/explosives/acquisition-storage-sale/9829

The cssa site hasn't been updated.It still has the old info.
 
I don't think storage unit means what you think it does.
What's a storage unit?



It's not your house or apartment. It's not a dwelling, container or place in your house or apartment. Did you build a nice box to put your stuff in, and keep it in your reloading room or a closet or the garage or whatever? Good for you. But it's not a storage unit.

EDIT: I just want to restate this, because I found it super confusing when I first read the act. The definition of a storage unit essentially means that, if it's something you have inside your dwelling, it's not a storage unit.
 
that I DO know. I only quoted storage unit text because that's the only thing I could find with clear instructions on what to do exactly. for all the reloaders like us for personal use, we should be looking at dwelling, attached for apartment/semi/townhouse/condo and detached for house. the problem is there is NO clear text for that. all it says on the page under dwelling section is security related. nothing about the actual storage container specifications like it listed for storage units.

on the NRC page I referenced, under smokeless powder/ammo/"Percussion Caps, also known as primers,"(3 different pages), it's obvious somebody @ NRC was too lazy to type something different and just copied/pasted the same text as below.

=============================================

they must be stored away from flammable substances and sources of ignition. People not authorized by the retailer must not be given unlimited access to the ......
=========================================================


so, I guess with all the answers here , I think everyone is still as clear as mud then for the container specifications. Even worse than the understanding on the word 'safe' for guns.

I don't think storage unit means what you think it does.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom