Questions about bedding rimfires.

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fonestar

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So I got my first bedding kit (a Miles Gilbert series) for my first bedding job on an old CIL 180. I thought I would do some research on this before I go and do something that I might potentially not be able to undo and regret later! So I looked up information on bedding rimfires first and found a myrid of often conflicting information on the subject. From what I am gathering so far, all of the hardcore BR shooters bed their actions. Most of them seem to prefer pillar bedding and some like to glue and some do not like to glue.

But some comments made me nervous about doing this to my rifle. In particular a poster who said that some rimfires *do not* benefit from bedding and can actually have their accuracy suffer as a result? For the life of me, I can't see how reducing vibrations and flex in any rifle could possibly be a bad thing? I can imagine how a very poor bedding job that puts pressure in some areas and not in others could be a bad thing.

I know the internet is filled with people. And people are filled with opinions that are like certain body parts that everyone has... What are the thoughts here? Myself, I was thinking that even a not-too-great bedding job is going to be better than no bedding job on all rifles centerfire and rimfire. Or is there something I am not considering?
 
What I've come to understand is that bedding is highly unlikely to make accuracy worse so you'll end up with something between no discernible difference to great improvement. Centerfire benefits most due to the high recoil force. I bedded a Savage MKII with no noticeable difference and just did a CZ 455 testing pending. If you stress the action during the curing phase of the bedding process you could hurt accuracy as the bedding will set up in the form of a stressed action. With the action gently held in place the bedding sets up to support the action stress free. If you screw it up you can always grind out the bedding and try again.
 
Yeah the cost of skilled labor times the hours needed to do a good job means factories will never offer bedded rifles. If I was paying myself my hourly $ to pillar and bed my CZ it's a $600 job. Mind you having all the proper tools and a shop would cut down on the work time plus the experience of doing many that was only my third go at bedding, first at pillaring. That and their offerings as they are shoot well enough for the average hunter, for the most part. Some rifles need the work to shoot acceptable. It is people in the target shooting community more interested in the benefits of bedding but they are either doing the work themselves or getting a custom shop rifle where bedding is part of the package.
 
If you are considering bedding your CIL Anschutz 180, the first thing you should do is consider what you want to achieve. How is it shooting now? What ammo are you using? How much more are you willing to spend on ammo? Pillar bedding is not a magic pill that will make you and your rifle shoot like an expert with a BR rig.

The question of what you want to achieve is important. If you are looking to shoot consistent one-hole groups at 50 yards with a 180, maybe you're being a little optimistic. Consistent half-inch groups may be more reasonable. What results are you getting now? If you are consistently shooting half-inch groups now, maybe it's best not to mess with a good thing. If you are willing to spend on good ammo then it may be worth the trouble of bedding.

Something to keep in mind is that a lot of guys pillar bed their stocks because they have a lot of flex and the factory inletting leaves something to be desired. Anschutz stocks are almost always well-fitting and often come with thin factory pillars.

Based on what you've indicated elsewhere on CGN, you are not concerned about modifying your rifle in any way (e.g. cutting the barrel and making a shroud for it), so it may seem unnecessary to point out how the majority of modifications reduce the resale value of the rifle. If you're bent on pillar bedding the rifle, a good place to begin is by reading this, which applies to all pillar bedding jobs http://www.6mmbr.com/pillarbedding.html

Good luck with your endeavor. Please let us know how things are turning out.
 
Hi Grauhanen, thank-you for your tips regarding the bolt. It seems to work properly and smoothly again after fixing that protruding rear action screw and adding some lubrication.

The CIL 180 was shooting very well before doing anything to it. Consistent 5 shot groups at 50 yards and I could to about the same with it as my CZ452 using CCI Standard Velocity. My idea was to squeeze every last drop of accuracy out of the Anschutz and see what it could do. I considered everything before any modifications, these CIL rifles were essentially entry-level sporters that had cheap target sights thrown on and were to be sold to shooting clubs. But they still have nice stocks, nice barrels and a 64 action so I believe a good candidate for something exactly like this. Resale value of my CIL is going to be slightly less than my CZ 452. I've done crown jobs before and they have always turned out nicely and worked great. The end of my 18.5" CIL barrel is now buffed to the point of being able to use it as a mirror. Obviously, I would not modify a vintage Winchester 75 or Remington 40x like this though.

I did the bedding yesterday, took apart and it looked neat but there were a few air pockets. Whipped up a little more and now she is sitting for another 24 hours to cure. The stock is also holding against the barrel on the upper left side but is floated everywhere else so I need to fix that too. Don't think I will go through the trouble of adding pillars to this rifle but might bed the trigger assembly. So far everything is turning out nicely and looking professional, can't wait to get it back together and try it out but I am taking my time with it.
 
Sounds like you're making good progress. Please post some pictures when you get a chance. I'd like to see how it looks as I recently got a Savage Anschutz Match 64, which is very similar to the CIL Anschutz 190, and bedding information about Anschutz rifles is less easy to come by than for CZ rifles, of which I have pillar bedded a couple.

For best accuracy potential you should consider shooting better ammo than CCI SV. Spend a little more to get some entry level match ammo like SK Standard Plus or SK Rifle Match. You will almost certainly have better results with SK rather than CCI SV in both your CZ 452 and the CIL Anschutz.
 
What does the tagged do? Hopefully it's not like being "flagged" haha...

I'm still a little confused about how the pillars help the rifle but I will believe that smarter beings than myself are doing it for a reason. I am hoping that "regular" bedding will be good enough to squeeze a little more accuracy out of my rifle. My LGS has some SK ammo in stock, it is pricey but I will give it a try once I have things back together.
 
I would be surprised if you gained anything by bedding a .22 I don't think that they produce enough energy to change the barrel harmonics unless the stock and metal had a poor sloppy fit to start with.
 
Magellann said:
I would be surprised if you gained anything by bedding a .22 I don't think that they produce enough energy to change the barrel harmonics unless the stock and metal had a poor sloppy fit to start with.
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I believe that all the hardcore rimfire BR shooters are running bedded custom rifles becuase bedding a rimfire does matter. "Not much of a difference" is still not "no difference".
 
fonestar said:
I'm still a little confused about how the pillars help the rifle but I will believe that smarter beings than myself are doing it for a reason.
Click to expand...

The pillars serve as a rigid column between the stock and the action so that when the action screws are tightened they cannot put stress on the action and they eliminate any possibility of compression of the stock under the screws. It's metal on metal on metal (the action, the pillars, the bottom metal). The bedding stiffens the stock, but more importantly provides repeatable positioning of the action in the stock on reassembly and removes any shifting in position of the action in the stock from shot to shot. In other words, pillars and bedding make the action sit in the stock the same way all the time without stress and without movement. The idea is to eliminate stress between the action and the stock and to help reduce stock flex, both of which diminish the accuracy potential of a rifle.
 
fonestar said:
So I got my first bedding kit (a Miles Gilbert series) for my first bedding job on an old CIL 180. I thought I would do some research on this before I go and do something that I might potentially not be able to undo and regret later! So I looked up information on bedding rimfires first and found a myrid of often conflicting information on the subject. From what I am gathering so far, all of the hardcore BR shooters bed their actions. Most of them seem to prefer pillar bedding and some like to glue and some do not like to glue.

But some comments made me nervous about doing this to my rifle. In particular a poster who said that some rimfires *do not* benefit from bedding and can actually have their accuracy suffer as a result? For the life of me, I can't see how reducing vibrations and flex in any rifle could possibly be a bad thing? I can imagine how a very poor bedding job that puts pressure in some areas and not in others could be a bad thing.

I know the internet is filled with people. And people are filled with opinions that are like certain body parts that everyone has... What are the thoughts here? Myself, I was thinking that even a not-too-great bedding job is going to be better than no bedding job on all rifles centerfire and rimfire. Or is there something I am not considering?
Click to expand...

Where on/in the internet did you look?
RimFireCentral is what most would consider The Gospel when it comes to rim fire .22's.
The is a thread on CGN in either the gunsmithing section or the rimfire section where a member shows his bedding of his CZ455.
A little over zealous in my opinion, but it is his gun and he is looking for results.
dig a little deeper here at CGN before you go hogging out your gun.
Rob

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1390313-CZ-455-Canadian-Bedding-Report
 
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i recently got a real nice Boyd Tacticool (Pro-Varment) stock and was wondering if i should bed it.
after doing some reading and then calling Boyd's i was told no.
the people at Boyd's out right told me not to bed the stock on the 22.
the said thier stock was made to have the barrel free floated.

now i guess you could bed the action and the receiver if your gun has a receiver.
but they where very instant that the barrel be left to free float.

they fella even said that most of the time the action will be super tight in their stocks and you may even have to trim some material out because they are so tight, which funny enough i had to do on mine.

now, all that said mine is going out to the range tomorrow for the first time so i guess ill see.
 
wayupnorth said:
i recently got a real nice Boyd Tacticool (Pro-Varment) stock and was wondering if i should bed it.
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I have a Boyds Pro Varmint stock on a CZ 452 that is not bedded or pillared and it shoots so well that I don't need to do a thing. I have another Pro Varmint stock on a CZ 453 that I pillar bedded over the winter. It, too, shot well as it came from Boyds, but I couldn't resist bedding it as the trigger is so easily removed. I haven't had the chance to test it at the range yet; that's coming very soon.

Shoot your rifle with your new PV stock before doing anything. Shoot it a lot. Then decide whether you ought to try bedding it.
 
I understand that most higher-end rimfires will shoot "good enough" out of the box. My CIL 180 was shooting "good enough" too and I could manage typically around .75" with CCI SV on a good day. But I was not after "good enough" I was after "shooting even better" and "improved". I didn't see the thread about the guy's CZ 455 but my main question was why someone I think on Rimfire Central would think bedding could harm accuracy, (assuming of course that you leave the floated parts floated and bed the action)?
 
fonestar said:
I understand that most higher-end rimfires will shoot "good enough" out of the box. My CIL 180 was shooting "good enough" too and I could manage typically around .75" with CCI SV on a good day. But I was not after "good enough" I was after "shooting even better" and "improved". I didn't see the thread about the guy's CZ 455 but my main question was why someone I think on Rimfire Central would think bedding could harm accuracy, (assuming of course that you leave the floated parts floated and bed the action)?
Click to expand...

Bedding, if not done properly, will/may harm accuracy. Most common mistakes include:
- too much torque on the action screws while the compound is curing (it will create pre-load condition at the interface between the stock and the action, everything will "spring back" when the action is de-moulded from the stock). Even if electrical tape is used and tightened too much, it may pre-load the action and/or sporter barrel
- action screws touching the pillars/not enough clearance between the action screw and the pillar id. You can use plastic sleeves or masking tape on the screws to centre them in the pillars while the compound is curing
- demoulding the action/barrel before the beding compound cures completely
- not removing enough "wood" to provide "space" for the bedding compound
If things don't work out, you can always grind out the "bad" bedding and do it all over again.
Kody
 
Thanks, I guess that's the info I was looking for Kody. But it sounds like if it's done properly it shouldn't have any ill effects. I didn't pillar bed my CIL 180, just normal bedding... I will be taking it out later today and seeing how it shoots.
 
I just pillar'd my Savage Mark II and my initial testing suggests performance is no worse than before. Bulk Winchester 333 groups shrunk a bit but shooting bulk doesn't really tell you anything. Groups with good ammunition were consistent and impressive.
 
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