Questions about caliber for large game

[Slamfire]

...hesitant between .270 win and .308...been a fan of Sako bolt actions, so the caliber would need to be available for various Sako models (I like the Bavarian ones or 85,...

I wanted to own a Sako 85 Bavarian Carbine so I recently acquired one. Considered the .308 but decided on the '06 because it's better suited due to its greater case capacity to fire heavier bullets faster which I generally prefer to use in small bore rifles for maximum penetration.

Nice to see that my rifle fires the Sako 220gr Hammerhead factory loads quite accurately so I will give these a try this season.

.30-06 Sako 85 Bavarian Carbine with Leupold FX-II Ultralight 2.5x20mm

[

 

[Papaclaude]

I wanted to own a Sako 85 Bavarian Carbine so I recently acquired one. Considered the .308 but decided on the '06 because it's better suited to fire heavier bullets (like 220 and 240gr) faster which I generally prefer to use in small bore rifles for maximum penetration.

Nice to see that my rifle fires the Sako 220gr Hammerhead factory loads quite accurately so I will give these a try this season.

.30-06 Sako 85 Bavarian Carbine with Leupold FX-II Ultralight 2.5x20mm

[

Very nice rig, but I somehow don't think the OP, being recoil-sensitive, should choose this as a first option.

Funny thing, though - my Dad weighed about 120 lbs soaking wet with 2 rolls of quarters in his pockets, yet he fired a 444, 300 Wby and 375 H&H, and his go-to was a Rem 600 in 350 WM.

 

[Slamfire]

Sako 85 Carbines weigh about 8 lbs scoped. Calculate how fast it slams into your shoulder when fired.

30-06: (180gr + 50gr propellant) x 2600 fps / (8 lbs x 7000gr/lb) = 10.6 fps

308: (180 + 50) x 2500 / (8 x 7000) = 10.3 fps

270: (150 + 50) x 2800 / (8 x 7000) = 10.0 fps

All are about the same so recoil should be indistinguishable among these 3 calibers.

 

[l.viita]

That is a gorgeous gun!

I don't suffer from the bruises haha it's more annoying than anything. I guess it's mostly a question of the gun feeling right in your hands and easy to handle and shoot accurately a few rounds in a row without being too distabilized by the recoil. The .308 ruger gunsite scout was pretty nice for that, it's a nice bolt action rifle.

 

[CV32]

Hey there, I am starting to look for a hunting rifle and I am hesitant about the best caliber for large game like deer, elk, moose. I am hesitant between .270 win and .308 (I've already tried that caliber and it's not too bad when it comes to recoil). I've always been a fan of Sako bolt actions, so the caliber would need to be available for various Sako models (I like the Bavarian ones or 85, but I'm also considering buying a used one, maybe an older model). That being said, would .270 be enough for larger game like moose? Would .308 be a better versatile option? What about the price for the ammos, is there a big difference between the two? I would also like to use that gun for target shooting, so the cost/availability of the ammo would be in important factor for me! Thanks in advance for your input!

.308 is the better option for you.

 

[l.viita]

If you want a 308, you can get a shooting pad that will help or wear a shooting jacket with a shoulder pad, but if you are looking at buying new, I'd highly suggest a 6.5 X 55. Just as a side note, have you thought of the little Savage/Stevens bolt action 30-30's? You can get them for around $300 (used is the only option AFAIK), but it's a great little deer gun and will do the job on moose with proper placement. (In my experience, moose are easier to kill than deer - but I'm not sure it's still legal for moose in QC.) Ammo is probably easier to find than for the 6,5.

Another option is to get a braked 308, but you would want hearing protection as they are noisy.

I'm not entirely closed to the idea of having another brand of firearm. I'm aware a Sako is rather pricy for a first hunting rifle. I will look that up!

The only thing that is a requirement (in my case) is that the mechanism must be a bolt action because those are the ones I prefer!

 

[Slamfire]

That is a gorgeous gun!...

Thanks.

 

[Dogleg]

The 270 is enough gun for moose. When I started that's all I had for years and I don't remember wishing something got hit harder. Moose are the biggest wimps around, although they die slow they give up easy. Dad always used his 30-30, we've got a .257 here with a couple moose to its credit and my youngest daughter popped her only moose with a muzzleloader when she was 14.

I'm more concerned about the bruising. There's bound to be some members here that can figure out the issue for you and or have some light shooting options they'd let you try.. A 308 shouldn't be bruising anyone after a few shots, or at all.

 

[kamlooky]

One could consider the reduced load ammo that I believe Remington offers for the smaller game you are after until you get more comfortable with shooting your rifle.

 

[hoytcanon]

To be fair, I'm a 5'2" woman that tends to get bruised easily (I get bruises when people jokingly fist bump by arm). But the .308 I tried was a short rifle (ruger gunsite scout) with a 16.1" barrel. It is a fairly light gun and it's the perfect size for me pretty much (compared to a benelli nova 12 gage for instance). I doubt the technique is the issue as the stock is in my shoulder "nook", directly on the muscly part of between the shoulder and chest under the clavicle. I don't recall how much gr the bullets had though at the time.


Thank you all so much for your insight! I don't have many hunters in my entourage so I'm glad to have seasoned hunters's opinions on the matter!

Also sorry if I make some mistakes in English at times or don't use the proper word. I like to think I'm fairly bilingual but sometimes it's not easy to know all specific terms regarding a more precise subject.

Your English is very good...

As a lightly framed person, you can shoot reduced "managed recoil" loads in .308 and work your way up to full power loads... for range work with your rifle, this is a good way to practice... then rezero with your hunting load before heading into the field.

 

[Slamfire]

A wounded Moose can be vindictive. Exercise caution.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/moose-hunting-hunter-attacked-newfoundland-labrador-1.4346689

 

[robxcr]

Nothing wrong with the 270win, it’s a good all round cartridge for game up to and including Moose.

I personally would go with the 308. It offers almost identical performance as the 270 in a shorter action plus there’s a broader range of bullet weights/types available in factory loads. I can’t remember what Sako offers for barrel twist rates, but I like my 308’s to have a 1:10 twist, I find it helps with accuracy when shooting heavier than 165gr bullets.



There is cheaper bulk ammo available for the 308 as well which keeps the range plinking cost down, not so much with the 270.

If you Hand Load, both cartridges are easy to load for and there is no shortage of components available.

This.

 

[Slamfire]

Sako provides 1:11 twist barrels for all 30 caliber offerings. My '06 stabilizes the 220gr Hammerhead bullet just fine.

 

[Papaclaude]

One could consider the reduced load ammo that I believe Remington offers for the smaller game you are after until you get more comfortable with shooting your rifle.

Reming-who? Oh, the company that used to make guns?

Yeah, their Managed Recoil stuff was pretty nice. Hope someone else picks up the business, or they can rebuild it. I guess Winchester did it a few times, and IIRC Colt has done/is doing it as well.

 

[a j cave]

My wife shoots a 308. I have shoot moose with it. Get a Past shooting pad ( looks like a shoulder harness) and use that at the range. Both cartridges will do what you want and an “06” even more. Practice at the range with a 22 to help with recoil worries. Good luck

 

[Tabacco Brook]

Another lighter recoiling, short action option would be the 7mm-08rem,... for deer you could use most any standard 140gr cup and core bullet,.. and for Elk and Moose you could use 140gr Nosler Partitions,.. the Partitions give good expansion and great penetration. (or the 140gr Accubond is another good bullet)

Some regard the 7-08 as the perfect whitetail round,.. and plenty power for Elk and Moose with the right bullet. I have no experience with the 7-08 on Elk or Moose, but I do know first hand that it works great on whitetail deer and black bear.

The 7-08 is almost like you combined the 270 and 308 into one round.

Recoil from the 7-08 with 140gr @ 2860fps == 12.6 lbs
Recoil from the 270 with 140gr @ 3000fps == 17.1 lbs
Recoil from the 308 with 150gr @ 2800fps == 15.8 lbs

 

[BigUglyMan]

To be fair, I'm a 5'2" woman that tends to get bruised easily (I get bruises when people jokingly fist bump by arm). But the .308 I tried was a short rifle (ruger gunsite scout) with a 16.1" barrel. It is a fairly light gun and it's the perfect size for me pretty much (compared to a benelli nova 12 gage for instance). I doubt the technique is the issue as the stock is in my shoulder "nook", directly on the muscly part of between the shoulder and chest under the clavicle. I don't recall how much gr the bullets had though at the time.


Thank you all so much for your insight! I don't have many hunters in my entourage so I'm glad to have seasoned hunters's opinions on the matter!

Also sorry if I make some mistakes in English at times or don't use the proper word. I like to think I'm fairly bilingual but sometimes it's not easy to know all specific terms regarding a more precise subject.

I guess it would also be good for those of us at the opposite end of the spectrum (I'm 6'5" and 260lbs) to not make assumptions about the size and dimensions of fellow shooters! Based on what you say now, I think a shorter rifle in something like a 308/7mm-08 would make more sense. Also, I would change my bullet weight recommendation and instead counsel you to go with a premium 150gr or even (I can't believe that I'm recommending this) a 130gr bullet so long as it's well built and, preferably, bonded (thinking a Scirocco if they're available in that weight in 30 caliber). Now, if you're an easy bruiser (my wife takes low dose Aspirin daily due to her family's history of strokes so she bruises if you even look at her sideways) then you have to recognize whether the bruising is because the recoil is too stout or if it just "is what it is". If the recoil doesn't bother you (ie make you flinch) then you may just decide to live with the bruising or wear heavy clothes or a recoil shield when you practice. I concur with Boomer that you may want to invest in a better recoil pad and make certain that the rifle fits you properly. You will have the opposite problem that I do with regard to LOP but in your case it is easily remedied by having the stock cut down and a top-notch pad installed.

And no matter which way you go, learn to let the recoil do it's thing without trying to stop it. I can tell you from shooting heavily recoiling rifles that I can lean into them and try to stop them from recoiling, but that energy is going somewhere and if you try to stop it, it's going to hurt a lot more. Learn to take a good position that allows you to control the recoil, but learn to ride it out. Let it push you without trying to stop it and it will be a much more pleasurable experience.

And your English doesn't confuse me at all. It's at least as good as several guys on the board!

 

[l.viita]

I guess it would also be good for those of us at the opposite end of the spectrum (I'm 6'5" and 260lbs) to not make assumptions about the size and dimensions of fellow shooters! Based on what you say now, I think a shorter rifle in something like a 308/7mm-08 would make more sense. Also, I would change my bullet weight recommendation and instead counsel you to go with a premium 150gr or even (I can't believe that I'm recommending this) a 130gr bullet so long as it's well built and, preferably, bonded (thinking a Scirocco if they're available in that weight in 30 caliber). Now, if you're an easy bruiser (my wife takes low dose Aspirin daily due to her family's history of strokes so she bruises if you even look at her sideways) then you have to recognize whether the bruising is because the recoil is too stout or if it just "is what it is". If the recoil doesn't bother you (ie make you flinch) then you may just decide to live with the bruising or wear heavy clothes or a recoil shield when you practice. I concur with Boomer that you may want to invest in a better recoil pad and make certain that the rifle fits you properly. You will have the opposite problem that I do with regard to LOP but in your case it is easily remedied by having the stock cut down and a top-notch pad installed.

And no matter which way you go, learn to let the recoil do it's thing without trying to stop it. I can tell you from shooting heavily recoiling rifles that I can lean into them and try to stop them from recoiling, but that energy is going somewhere and if you try to stop it, it's going to hurt a lot more. Learn to take a good position that allows you to control the recoil, but learn to ride it out. Let it push you without trying to stop it and it will be a much more pleasurable experience.

And your English doesn't confuse me at all. It's at least as good as several guys on the board!

Wow thanks for the suggestion!

I am pretty sure the bruising is just "what it is" because I always find bruises I have no clue how they got there.

The recoil itself doesn't bother me much, but let's be honest and admit that a shorter rifle will be way more easier to handle if it has recoil than a 28" barrel 12 gauge considering I don't have the longest arms

I will pursue my research on all the suggestions made in this thread! I will keep you updated once I make a decision/buy a rifle!

 

[Papaclaude]

I guess it would also be good for those of us at the opposite end of the spectrum (I'm 6'5" and 260lbs) to not make assumptions about the size and dimensions of fellow shooters! Based on what you say now, I think a shorter rifle in something like a 308/7mm-08 would make more sense. Also, I would change my bullet weight recommendation and instead counsel you to go with a premium 150gr or even (I can't believe that I'm recommending this) a 130gr bullet so long as it's well built and, preferably, bonded (thinking a Scirocco if they're available in that weight in 30 caliber). Now, if you're an easy bruiser (my wife takes low dose Aspirin daily due to her family's history of strokes so she bruises if you even look at her sideways) then you have to recognize whether the bruising is because the recoil is too stout or if it just "is what it is". If the recoil doesn't bother you (ie make you flinch) then you may just decide to live with the bruising or wear heavy clothes or a recoil shield when you practice. I concur with Boomer that you may want to invest in a better recoil pad and make certain that the rifle fits you properly. You will have the opposite problem that I do with regard to LOP but in your case it is easily remedied by having the stock cut down and a top-notch pad installed.

And no matter which way you go, learn to let the recoil do it's thing without trying to stop it. I can tell you from shooting heavily recoiling rifles that I can lean into them and try to stop them from recoiling, but that energy is going somewhere and if you try to stop it, it's going to hurt a lot more. Learn to take a good position that allows you to control the recoil, but learn to ride it out. Let it push you without trying to stop it and it will be a much more pleasurable experience.

And your English doesn't confuse me at all. It's at least as good as several guys on the board!

It's what my Dad used to do, and he was the size of the OP, but I don't remember him having issues with any rifle or handgun. As a matter of fact, several big guys got "Weatherby eye" from his 300, but he never did.

 

[Bare]

Out of the two you listed I would go 270. There is lots of great ammo for it. It shoots flatter than the 308. Uses the proper bullet for the task at hand and go hunting. The accubond is a great all around bullet for the 270 and the Barnes ttsx is extremely good as well and will plot right through a moose.