Questions about primers and COL

A

Andrewe

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Are primers interchangeable?

I understand the different sizes and magnums. I also know that Winchesters are a little hotter. I'd just like to know if the CCI, Remington, Federal, etc. will signifigantly change barrel pressures when interchanged.

Also. When the loading manual lists the COL is this the maximum under SAAMI guidelines? I'm playing around with bullet seating depth (no more than .020" either way, checking longer COLs in chamber) and am a bit concerned about things going way wrong.

For instance. I just loaded some VMAX (pointy) in 223 and noticed that the COL is the exact same as a hollow point (flat tip) factory cartridge. It would seem that the VMAX should seat out a bit farther. The actual shape of both bullets was very similar. Other manuals list a generic COL even longer than the Hornady manual.

The one thing I am finding confusing about reloading is the contradicting info given in various manuals. I have been trying to follow the manual from the manufacturer of the bullet used

Thankns for any help.
 
"...Are primers interchangeable?..." Yes and no. If you change any component, you need to work up the load again. However, for your .223 any small rifle primer will do.
COL is the Cartridge Overall Length including the bullet. The primer isn't part of that. Your rifle's chamber will determine how long you can load a particular bullet.
"...I have been trying to follow the manual from the manufacturer of the bullet used..." Using a makers maunal will make you crazy. Not that they're bad, but they only give you loads for their bullets and the powders their engineers tested. This is why the Lyman is better. More loads with more powders than any bullet or powder maker's book. Load for the bullet weight, not who made it.
And relax. As long as you religiously follow a manual, nothing bad will happen.
Pick a bullet and powder, my old Lyman book gives IMR4198 as the accuracy load for a 55 grain jacketed bullet. 19.0 to 21.7. Work up a load that shoots well in your rifle, then fine tune it.
 
I was running into the same thing... probs finding the correct info for my bullets. I baught a .300 WSM, and it was a ##### to find diffent bullet manufacturers information. So, to solve the problem, I purchased Sierra infinty suite 5. Its a ballistics software program for about $60 CDN. Just select the bullet you want to load, and it will tell you everything you need to know, from C.O.L. to the time it will take the bullet to hit the target at a given distance... everything you will need to load all types of different ammo. You select the bullet, the manufactured, the powder, and the cartridge... the computer spits out the rest for you. Various velocities, energy, drop, windage compinsation.. heck it will even slope dope for you.
And keep in mind, some bullets will have a different over all length. Flat nose and spire points for example.. different C.O.L. same cartridge.

You can order the sierra software form almost anyplace, and I give it two thumbs up. It solved a lot of hastles.
cheers,
 
play within 2.245 and 2.50.
Sierra bullets differ only .005 from the lightest to the heaviest .223 bullets.
You asked about Vmax, and I cannot find them within the software. But the majority of the .223's listed are 2.250
so playing with .020 may be too much travel.
Mark up a "dummy" with a black felt, then see when it hits you rifling... then adjust from there if all else fails.
Sorry that I am not of much help, but I feel for ya man.. been there myself.
 
Just some more info.

hoochie gives me a COL of 2.250 (thanks!) but the Hornady manual says 2.2" for the VMAX. But they list the same COL for all of their 50 gr bullets. OK then I'll follow it. I assume that that extra 50 thou would put the VMAX out too far unless I have a strange chamber.

I tried checking the cartridge in the chamber by marking the bullet with a felt. I was able to push the 243 bullet way too far into the case and still see rifling marks on the bullet. Very strange. I tried it twice.

I've had good luck getting info from manufacturers. A simple e-mail to Sierra and they kindly sent me complete loading data for my .243. Very nice.

I am having fun working up loads but I am deeply concerned about having an overpressure problem. I am especially concerned because I am loading the .223 for my wife's rifle.

Maybe someone can clarify what I might expect to be the progression of overpressure signs. ie will a bullet seated in too deep grenade the receiver or might I get the usual warning signs first? Since I am very careful when I reload I am not concerned about hot or light loads. My main concern is the effect of a bullet seated too deep or too far out and will I have any warning before things go boom.

Thanks again for the information above.
 
Hoochie.

I was looking at that software and had considered buying it. Since I couldn't check it out first I was unsure.

Does it list loads by bullet brand (and lots of them too) or is it by bullet weight?

Everything else you mentioned sounds great.
 
ricochet said:
One other problem I've heard of is if you are loading them long and chamber a round and unload without firing, a long-seated bullet may not eject properly.
Click to expand...

That's something else I had not considered. I do believe that I am short though.
 
When we discuss COL, what we are really talking about is the distance from the bearing surface of a particular bullet to the lands. That is why the COL changes with different style bullets within the same weight. Stoney Point makes a cool tool to determine the proper OAL, and I think you can find it at most of the places that normally sell reloading products.

The method I use is slightly different. Take a bullet and place it nose down into the muzzle of the barrel, useing moderate pressure , then turn it. Now you have a ring on the bullet which shows where the bearing surface begins. Next, run a cleaning rod into the barrel from the muzzle until it stops on the closed bolt face. Mark the rod at this point with a piece of masking tape. Next, drop a bullet into the breach end of the barrel, and hold light pressure against it with a second cleaning rod. From the muzzle again push in the measured rod until it stops on the bullet tip, and again mark the rod with a piece if masking tape. Use a linear caliper to measure between the forward adges of the tapes, which is the distance from the bolt face to the bullet tip. Now, subtract the distance from the bullet tip to the mark made from the muzzle on the bullet, and there is the seating depth to the lands.

My hunting rifle ammo is loaded so that the rounds will function in the magazine, and if I'm loading a heavy kicker I only seat to the crimping groove or cannular. But I load match ammo so the bullets touch the lands, and my loads are worked up accordingly. By doing so I have eliminated the need to worry about bullet pull weight, as the bullet against the lands keeps the initial pressure to move the bullets of subsequent rounds identicle - at least within the dimensional variances of the individual bullets. As a result I am able to dramatically reduce variances in velocity.
 
hoochie said:
I was running into the same thing... probs finding the correct info for my bullets. I baught a .300 WSM, and it was a ##### to find diffent bullet manufacturers information. So, to solve the problem, I purchased Sierra infinty suite 5. Its a ballistics software program for about $60 CDN. Just select the bullet you want to load, and it will tell you everything you need to know, from C.O.L. to the time it will take the bullet to hit the target at a given distance... everything you will need to load all types of different ammo. You select the bullet, the manufactured, the powder, and the cartridge... the computer spits out the rest for you. Various velocities, energy, drop, windage compinsation.. heck it will even slope dope for you.
And keep in mind, some bullets will have a different over all length. Flat nose and spire points for example.. different C.O.L. same cartridge.

You can order the sierra software form almost anyplace, and I give it two thumbs up. It solved a lot of hastles.
cheers,
Click to expand...


It will give you calculated numbers which may or may not be of much value.Since the people producing the software do not know the length of the throat in your rifle,they can't give you a reliable COL.Since they can't account for different chamber or barrel dimensions,or for variances in lots of components,they can't provide accurate velocities or trajectories.The software will provide you with a ballpark starting point but you will actually need to shoot your rifle to determine which COL shoots most accurately in your rifle.You need to actually chronograph a load in your gun to know the actual velocity and you need to actually shoot your gun and load at various distances in order to determine actual trajectory.I have compared the calculated values to values actually produced in several guns and velocities often differed by 100fps or more.The trajectories often varied by several inches at longer distances.
 
the Sierra software has info on all sorts of mabufactures bullets, but the C.O.L. for " non Sierra" bullets is not provided. However, if you want to shoot Sierra bullets, there are very detailed explanations of what the bullet is designed for, which ones are best suited for special purposes, and the best loads for accuracy and hunting.
I friend of mine is a sniper in the States, and he highly recommended this software to me.
Really, the software is a great tool.
cheers.
 
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