Questions about simple testing of where your shotgun is shooting.

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grimblyd

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Hello folks.

Background:
I'm a full Newb at shooting clays. (Not calling it skeet, trap or anything else till I am sure which of the ones I am actually doing. There's 5 stations and we rotate through them after 5 shots.)
I was using my Mossberg 500, but my wife expressed and interest in shooting as well, so I picked up one of the Turkish semi autos for crazy good price. (Plus any time the wife expresses interest, means I get to do something more! yay!)

So we took the two of them to our local range where they have that 5 stand rotation described above. All the old guys were quite impressed with the look of the Turk gun. One fellow even asked me if it was a Weatherby. The guys looked at it, and the chokes that came with it, and suggested I switch to the full choke, which I did.

I was thinking ok, this is good. Might have stumbled on to a gem here.

Did 2 full rounds (calling it a round when you shoot the 25 times) with 1 hit, and I think that clay just self imploded out of pity for me.
Now I'm definitely in need of some practice, training, knowledge gaining etc. and I accept that, and the reason why I will be back there every week, and scouring Utubes in between, as well as these forums for information on improving my shooting.

However, 3rd round I switched back to my Mossberg and had 8 hits out of 25. The reason I switched is I offered one of the old timers (who was probably hitting about 15-20 of 25 in a round) to try my new Turk auto. He missed every one. After about 15, he switched back to his own semi auto (don't recall the brand) and was 7 for the final 10.

He suggested I 'pattern' the shotgun and find out where it might be shooting. He suggested that if it's shooting low, I could raise the front sight and that would fix it, but if it's shooting high... shrug.

So, my question is;

So what's the best path forward to test this and align myself with shooting this gun?

Is there a process for figuring this out, and adjusting my shooting to make it work?

Is there anything else about the gun that I need to check for alignment etc.? Of course I made sure everything was tightened, so I can't think of anything alignment wise that would throw it off.

Just for those funny guys that are sure to post 'Ship it back to Turkistan'. or 'use it as a truck jack handle'. LOL in advance. Let's just say that isn't an option as I've kind of blown up my hobby budget for a while, and kind of need to make this work.


I'm quite fine with the concept that it really is just all me, and I just need to become a better shot, but having had someone else raise the question, I'd kind of like the confidence that it is shooting ok, so how do I prove that out is what I think I am really asking.

As always, thanks in advance for your input!

Dan
 
Ok first you need to know if the gun actually fits you? Yes there is such a thing as gun fit. If the gun fits it will hit where you are looking. As for seeing where the gun is currently hitting you need to get yourself a few large sheets of paper or cardboard about 40"x40" square. Draw a dot in the centre of the paper. Set it up at 40 yards. Aim at that dot and fire. Then check to see where the pattern is printing in relation to your aiming point. Draw a circle 30" in diameter around the main cluster of pellets then check to see where in relation to the dot the centre of the pellet cluster is. Is the heaviest concentration of pellets above the dot? Centred on the dot? Below the dot? Left of it? Right of it? Perform 3-5 test shots 1 each at a new target each time and see if you are putting the pattern in the same spot consistently. Aim at the dot the same way each time. Do not compensate by aiming where you think you need to in order to hit the dot dead on. Establish where the gun is shooting in relation to where you are looking. This is probably the only time you will ever hear the term "aim" a shotgun with the exception of shooting slugs. When a shotgun fits properly you should be able to focus on your target, throw the gun to your shoulder and fire the instant the gun is shouldered and your face is planted on the stock. It should hit exactly where you are looking. Once you have established where it is hitting in relation to your aim you can then address any fit issue if one exists or if it fits and is shooting where you are looking simply get out and practice.
 
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To start with, according to your description, you were shooting trap. Secondly, ignore the old timer that told you to raise the front sight if the gun is shooting low for you. The best way to miss while wingshooting is to try and aim the shotgun using the beads. And if you did aim the shotgun, raising the front bead would make the gun shoot even lower. To raise the point of impact, you would actually increase the height of the comb. As to the Weatherby comment, Weatherby does sell a line of lower priced Turkish made shotguns, so don't take the question to imply that he thought that the shotgun looked to be of high quality. Since you are shooting trap, I would pattern the gun at 40 yards. I would simply shoot at a large piece of paper at 40 yards, by looking down the rib, and then see where the pattern is centered on the paper. If you are shooting low with the gun, you can raise the comb by attaching a piece of foam or rubber, experimenting until the gun is shooting where you are looking. If the gun is shooting high, then you would need to remove material from the comb. If you want to shoot a shotgun well, the gun needs to fit, so it's easiest to start out by purchasing a shotgun that fits , or is very close to fitting you. Buying a shotgun without trying it for fit , is a good way to end up with a shotgun that you shoot poorly with. Before you purchase a shotgun, close your eyes and shoulder the gun naturally, then without moving anything else open your eyes. If you are looking straight down the rib,both left to right and up and down, the gun is at least close to fitting you. If the rib is out of alignment left to right, the gun has the wrong cast for you. If you are looking at the rib from above, rather than looking along it, the gun doesn't have enough drop at comb. If you cant see the full front bead, the gun has too much drop at comb.
 
my adder to spank's comments would be: if your gun has interchangable chokes, install the tightest one you have. It generally makes finding the centre of your shot pattern easier to find.

Keep in mind too, especially if you are coming from the rifle or pistol world; DO NOT look at the gun/bead/barrel. Look at the target. You don't aim a shotgun like you to a rifle/pistol, you point it. Don't think too much about it, just focus on the target and let your subconscious figure out the lead. This is a big part of why the gun needs to fit, as it need to shoot where you look.
 
stubblejumper said:
If you want to shoot a shotgun well, the gun needs to fit, so it's easiest to start out by purchasing a shotgun that fits , or is very close to fitting you. Buying a shotgun without trying it for fit , is a good way to end up with a shotgun that you shoot poorly with. Before you purchase a shotgun, close your eyes and shoulder the gun naturally, then without moving anything else open your eyes. If you are looking straight down the rib,both left to right and up and down, the gun is at least close to fitting you. If the rib is out of alignment left to right, the gun has the wrong cast for you. If you are looking at the rib from above, rather than looking along it, the gun doesn't have enough drop at comb. If you cant see the full front bead, the gun has too much drop at comb.
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OP - couple visuals below may offer further clarity along the lines of what has been stated above. Hopefully, the explanations will help you to better understand the important question of gun fit.

[YouTube]P-JOj4J_Ltc[/YouTube]

[YouTube]7hsKCO8Mcfk#t=2.4390291[/YouTube]
 
Get a big thing you can shoot at, which will let you see where the pellets are hitting. About 4ft by 4ft. It doesn't matter what the thing is - sheet of plywood painted white, butcher or wrapping paper, even an old bedsheet.

Mark a center aiming point and stand back about 25 yards. The distance isn't critical but you want it to approximate your range to target. Use a full choke here.

Mount the gun quickly and fire at the aiming point. Don't line up the beads, don't snuggle your cheek around, just mount it quickly and fire. Hopefully you at least have a consistent mount. Do that 5 times. Now look at your target. You should start to see where you are generally impacting. If you can't tell yet, fire 5 more rounds.

This should show a ragged hole where your central pattern is. Of course, compare it to where your aiming point is. Once you know where the gun is pointing we can figure out how to adjust the gun to get it in line.
 
The simplest method that I have come across is the one that is posted by obuerkle ... except that I will simplify it a bit. I find it easiest to set up a target box (that the clay targets come in) and pace back 13 yards. Aim the gun like a rifle at the center of the box bottom (where the "seal" is). Shoot a couple of boxes with one shell into each and make sure you get similar results on each box. This will give you a good indication of where the gun is shooting in relation to where you are aiming (high, low, left or right). Depending on what you find ... you need to move the comb in the direction that you wish to move the pattern.

You may also wish to do the same test with your Mossberg for a comparison. I'll bet they are not very close to shooting in the same place.

There is lots of great information supplied above regarding fitting, etc. First thing though, is to make sure the gun is shooting in the correct place. If you need to put an adjustable comb on that gun, I would recommend that you sell it and look for something else as, it is not likely worth spending the money on. JMHO and good luck ... keep the game fun.
 
Ahsan Ahmed said:
OP - couple visuals below may offer further clarity along the lines of what has been stated above. Hopefully, the explanations will help you to better understand the important question of gun fit.

[YouTube]P-JOj4J_Ltc[/YouTube]

[YouTube]7hsKCO8Mcfk#t=2.4390291[/YouTube]
Click to expand...

This post right here pretty much nails it!
 
It can be difficult at first but you will eventually get it. Just takes practice. If it's trap from the 16 yard line then you use a modified choke with 7.5 shot. If it's from the 24 yard line you use a full choke. You should also be aiming the gun 1 foot above the trap house not directly at it. Aiming directly at it and your chasing the bird right off the bat and then what happens is you over swing and shoot over the bird. The bird is at its fastest as soon as it leaves the trap thrower and starts to slow down. The exact opposit of a real bird. Which is why I don't consider these games as practice for hunting season.
 
Mumbles Marble Mouth said:
It can be difficult at first but you will eventually get it. Just takes practice. If it's trap from the 16 yard line then you use a modified choke with 7.5 shot. If it's from the 24 yard line you use a full choke. You should also be aiming the gun 1 foot above the trap house not directly at it. Aiming directly at it and your chasing the bird right off the bat and then what happens is you over swing and shoot over the bird. The bird is at its fastest as soon as it leaves the trap thrower and starts to slow down. The exact opposit of a real bird. Which is why I don't consider these games as practice for hunting season.
Click to expand...


Reading that bit of coaching tells me you have never achieved AA class in trap. Hold points vary with station, weather conditions, backgrounds, whether you are a one eyed or two eyed shooter and a host of other variables. Choke choice as well is not dictated by the yardage line. Some shooters shoot targets from the 16 within 10-16 yards of the house. Others cannot get to them before they are 25 yards + from the house. Leads and angles vary considerably too from station to station, target angles thrown and distance the shooter is from the trap. There is no magic hold here at this height and use this choke and shot size. What there is is practice, practice, practice until it's ingrained in your brains' memory the sight picture it wants to see to send the message to your finger to pull the trigger.
 
the spank said:
Reading that bit of coaching tells me you have never achieved AA class in trap. Hold points vary with station, weather conditions, backgrounds, whether you are a one eyed or two eyed shooter and a host of other variables. Choke choice as well is not dictated by the yardage line. Some shooters shoot targets from the 16 within 10-16 yards of the house. Others cannot get to them before they are 25 yards + from the house. Leads and angles vary considerably too from station to station, target angles thrown and distance the shooter is from the trap. There is no magic hold here at this height and use this choke and shot size. What there is is practice, practice, practice until it's ingrained in your brains' memory the sight picture it wants to see to send the message to your finger to pull the trigger.
Click to expand...

Shut your bear trap you Digweed wannabe.
 
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