Questions about the 'PROVE it safe'

I have found that for some semi-auto pistols you can see down the bore from the rear between slide and receiver with the slide forward. You have to move it around a bit to get the full picture, but you can see light for over half the diameter pretty easily.
 
Interesting to know, thanks for the replys everyone.
Seems you're all afraid to look down the barrel. If you do the PROVE properly, by the time you get to the E you should be convinced that the gun is safe. using your nail (in the action, near the chamber) to reflect light into the barrel, you should be able to easily examine the bore with out the need of a light/cleaning rod. Probably more convenient for checking the bore in the field for most vs carrying around a cleaning rod.

I had the same concern as the rest of you (looking down the barrel), but my instructor replied with the above. Although it might be rare for a primer pop, 2 or more bullets jamming up in the barrel probably requires a new barrel in the end. Preforming the E seems like an easy way to prevent unneeded costs (ie. barrel replacements).
Although, if it happens halfway through a mag and you dont notice it, checking the bore next time you PROVE wont help anyways. What are the chances of it happening on the last round anyways. Maybe they needed something else to finish the PROVE acronym, and threw examining the bore in there..
 
note to the new shooters: always carry your cleaning equipment to the range, the cleaning rod is always handy to know if you had a primer pop , or to provE.

it is also teached in some PAL-RPAL classes that it is permissible in a specific condition, to look directly down the barrel of a gun from the business end, to look for obstructions, while this can rarely be done on long guns, i have to admit that even when performed adequately after previous steps are accomplished on pistols , short sized rifles or shotguns, this procedure will raise eyebrows at the range


a lot of the folks that are shooting havent been in a class for firearm instructions in a long time ...thx for your understanding...

happy shooting!
 
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After taking the course, and seeing the instructor look down the barrel countless times, it still weirds me out doing it.
 
I must admit before loading at range I usually do look down the bore (check for obstructions) and run a dry patch threw as well to get rid of excess oil.Once a friend said "hey want to shoot my new 9mm pistol" He had just unboxed it.So I did my PROVE and when I got to E ,saw No light in bore ,He had left a full cleaning patch in the bore,Guess he got distracted last time he cleaned it???
Glad I checked the bore.As one other said if PROVE is done properly No ammo should be in Firearm.Also for sure PROVE and check bore after a strange recoil or sound.Seen plenty of those at range.
Just my thoughts.
 
During my PAL instruction, 2 Canadian Soldiers also took the course with us. They informed the Instructor that the Army strictly informs to never look down the barrel of any gun! The Instructor made some accomodations for them using a long cleaning rod, the rest of us had to follow the "E" examine the bore by looking down the barrel. The Soldiers were concerned that Civilians had to look down their guns. Maybe the CFC Instructors should revise the "E" part of PROVE?
 
The "E" has some applicability in the field, if you have bumbled about in the woods, snow, obstacles, etc. It is also a good idea when you take a gun out of storage and get ready to transport it - the cleaning patch incident described above would have been caught, for instance. On the dark continent, some bugs will build mud nests in your bore overnight. Some old PH's closed their empty actions and dropped a cartridge nose- down in the bore. No bug could get in, and they had one ready round to hand!

But at the range, unless you suspect an anomaly in a round fired, all looking down the bore from the business end will do is excite everyone around you! Most of us shoot some form of repeater - revolver, semi-auto, magazine fed bolt, pump or lever guns. In order for the gun to function as a repeater, you will have to load multiple rounds, and discharge them repeatedly. You can't be doing ACTS PROVE between shots in a repeater.

Long before the latest trash gun laws, responsible shooters opened the action of a firearm which was to be left unattended, on cease fires, and before going down range, or when handing it to another shooter. If there are rounds in an attached magazine, (think tube) it is courteous to so inform the individual receiving the gun. (It is not always desirable to cycle a pump or lever gun to empty a tube, when the receipient is about to shoot it anyway!)

Allow some common sense to infiltrate your gun handling. Don't allow our muzzle to cover anything you are not prepared to destroy, and keep your finger out of the trigger guard until your sights are beginning to bear on an intended shootable target. And, unload it before you set it down, and open it before you offer it to someone else. That's about got it. Kept millions of shooter safe on ranges for decades before the guvment dreamt up ACTS PROVE!
 
I have my own slightly different version of the Big Ones. This version really impressed me because it speaks in absolutes. I got it from a training video put out by Gunsite. They are:
  1. Every gun is always loaded.
  2. Never point the firearm at something you are not willing to destroy.
  3. Your finger stays off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
  4. Be aware of everything that's between your muzzle and wherever the round will end up.
The problem is that I am not willing to point a loaded firearm (rule 1) at my head (rule 2).

The only exception is when I have verified through cleaning rod or other method (light, mirror, etc.) that the bore is clear AND I have a sufficiently compelling reason.

P
 
Although the 4th isnt, but the first 3 rules you described are actually part of the ACTS and PROVE. Rule 4 is taught in the book, and was on both of my tests (PAL,RPAL). If you do the PROVE, you should be convinced that the gun is safe, therefor looking down the barrel is fine. Your rules are missing how to make a gun safe (PROVE)

Lots of interesting information in this thread.
Thank you everyone.
 
The Big Ones are not parts of ACTS and PROVE, they are essentially ACT. PROVE is the process of making a firearm safe.

The Big Ones are not about making firearms safe, they are rules for the safe handling of firearms wherever you encounter them.

You can't do the PROVE without looking down the barrel. Looking down the barrel of a gun you haven't personally inspected is inherently dangerous. I would much rather put my hand near the muzzle using a mirror, a flashlight, or a cleaning rod than put my head there.

You do what you want to.

P

Secular said:
Although the 4th isnt, but the first 3 rules you described are actually part of the ACTS and PROVE. Rule 4 is taught in the book, and was on both of my tests (PAL,RPAL). If you do the PROVE, you should be convinced that the gun is safe, therefor looking down the barrel is fine. Your rules are missing how to make a gun safe (PROVE)

Lots of interesting information in this thread.
Thank you everyone.
Click to expand...
 
I can peer down the barrel from the ejection port on all of my guns, and I always do that the first time I take them out of the case at the range. But once I start shooting I don't bother checking the barrel, unless I drop the gun or take a long lunch break or something like that. If I'm in the woods I'll tend to check the barrel a bit more, but at a static range I don't feel the need. Plus something about voluntarily pointing a gun (even an unloaded one) at my own face feels so wrong, haha.
 
well, since rule ONE is NEVER POINT THE WEAPON AT ANYTHING YOU DON'T WANT TO DESTROY and since the looking down the barrel from the muzzle is in effect pointing, it doesn't take a genius to see that part of the "procedure " is POORLY WRITTEN- i CHOOSE not to exercise that part and will stick a CLEANING ROD down any barrel i consider as suspect or hold it up to a light
actually rule one is "never put yourself in harm's way unless it'f for profit or benefit of others" but that's a whole other life
 
You could also use a bore snake, if you can find one.



"They're kind of hard to get a rag to stick to!"

Go ahead and laugh. It makes about as much sense as making a "safety" rule that requires you to point the muzzle at your own face.

[YouTube]6p3FhOupX9g[/YouTube]
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p3FhOupX9g>
 
as long as you can see daylight at the end of the tube, you're ok- doing it safely and according to the cfc /rcmp/et al is a DIFFERENT MATTER
 
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