Questions about this discipline

youonlywish

youonlywish

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Hey folks,
Questions from a newbie. I've been shooting now for about 7 years or so and have recently put together a NEA15 and an M&P9 for what I'd seen online to be described as '2-gun' competitions. I stumbled upon Service Rifle Competitions today and more particularly, the CQB off-shoot of those matches and am very interested to learn more. I'll be getting holster qualified this spring and am trying my best to read up on CQB as a discipline. If the forum members here wouldn't mind, I'd like to throw a couple questions out there;

-Are CQB matches less focused on time, where 3-gun matches might be?

-After I take the TDSA holster qualification, I was planning on taking a carbine course - is this the route most of you took?
I was thinking of contacting Tactical Teacher for his CQB clinic, but won't be holster qualified by then.

-Are CQB matches in Ontario friendly to new-comers?
I have a bunch of questions that are coming from a guy who has never been to a competitive shoot, so they might come across as very green.

-My local range is indoor. Where do you practice the skills needed to participate in a CQB match?

Thanks!
 
All action sport matches have a time component. I don't think any of them favour time over accuracy any more than the other. Most are trying to strike some sort of balance between accurate enough and fast enough. Whether you prefer to focus on fast OR accurate is a matter of strategy, but the guys winning any of those matches rank highly on both.

I think the TDSA holster course will be virtually foreign to anyone not in Southern Ontario, so rest assured that the majority of people shooting 2 or 3 gun, did not do any of their courses.
You won't go wrong in the hands of tactical teacher, but you should ask him what holster experience he is expecting you to have before you get there. I highly doubt he would require a competing organizations courses as a pre-requisite.

CQB matches, particularly the ORA matches, are very friendly to new competitors AND new shooters, however there is always an expectation that if you are stepping up to the line, you have at least medium knowledge and skill with the firearms you brought with you, and will not pose a safety risk. People are very tolerant of slow, and somewhat intolerant of not-very-accurate, as long as you are on paper. Unsafe, is not something anyone will tolerate.

I am sure there is someone in your local area who does 2/3 gun that can help you know if you are ready to ante up. Just find a match in your area and visit it and watch as a spectator. If you would honestly rate your handling skills as middle of the pack, then you are perfectly ready to compete. If 3/4 of the guys there look like warrior ninjas, then you probably need some more practice. Make a friend, ask question. A few hours of professional coaching can save you months of toiling on your own.
 
No need to be holster qualified. The pistol has no round in the chamber and the mag is not inserted until ordered to do so, on the line.

For CQB you need 2 pistol mags and 5 rifle mags, and way to hold them. Rifle needs a sling so you can drop it and pull your pistol.

You have 10 to 15 seconds to do most drills. A newbie won't get all his pistol shots off. Not a big deal. Most of us don't get much in the way of pistol hits, anyway.

You can do the key part of the training at home.

Every match involves shooting the gun (carbine or pistol) empty and then reloading and shooting again. Carbine is 5 and 5. Pistol is 3 and 3 or 5 and 5.

Practice reloading quickly. Drop the mag, draw and insert a fresh mag, drop the bolt/slide.

The two big differences of shooters is accuracy and reload speed.

Come up to Borden and shoot. We will pair you with an old pro and you shoot a series of practice shoots before shooting a match.

 
Thank you all for the information - I had a few emails returned quickly as well. Looking forward to attending a match. How much ammo should I bring?
 
youonlywish said:
Thank you all for the information - I had a few emails returned quickly as well. Looking forward to attending a match. How much ammo should I bring?
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The match directors can advise you of that as it will probably change on a match by match basis. Unless you are hiking to the match, how much ammo you throw in your trunk is immaterial. Most of us in these action sports by our ammo by the case, minimum, so having 1000rds of carbine AND 1000rds of pistol ammo, shouldn't be any great burden, and if you don't use it, just bring it back home.

That said I am sure you could probably show up to one of these matches with zero ammo and find enough people willing to sell you a few boxes here and there to get all that you need.

I always bring double what I think I will need cause there is always someone wondering around the parking lot fishing..."Hey, how much ammo did you bring?...."
 
For CQB your round count at the ORA matches is 200 rifle and 100 pistol will give you enough for the day. Service rifle is more I believe in terms of rifle and the pistol component may or may not come into play depending on the matches shot that day. I have only been to 1 service rifle day.

Come out to the matches as Ganderite said and you will be paired with a seasoned shooter. It is advisable to know general mechanics of your rifle and reloading. Practicing doesn't hurt as long as done safely in the house or live on the range.
 
Now you need to go through old threads with pictures to get an idea of how to set up your gear. I will be at the clinic too and having done the TDSA pistol course before, its good to have gear set up and to practice with it prior to arriving. I do have to say though, given the communication I've had, these guys are great and I believe they truly want to help and expand this sport with proper instruction, safety, and a little bantering too!
 
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Hey ORA CQB Match Director, and 2016 Provincials Champion here, i really should spend more time on CGN...
Lots of good points made above. I'll through out my 2 cents.

youonlywish said:
-Are CQB matches less focused on time, where 3-gun matches might be?
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Its a different kind of time focus. 3 gun and most sports count from when you can start shooting(on the buzzer) to your last shot. CQB everyone has the same amount of time and ammo prescribed. So if you're told to shoot 2 rounds in 5 seconds, or draw your pistol, shoot 3 rounds, reload and soot 3 rounds in 15 seconds.
A lot of the times are still fast so you want to be efficient with what your doing, practice reloading and drawing for sure.

youonlywish said:
-After I take the TDSA holster qualification, I was planning on taking a carbine course - is this the route most of you took?
I was thinking of contacting Tactical Teacher for his CQB clinic, but won't be holster qualified by then.
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I would say most shooters did not start with an outside course. Tim (the original match director) used to run clinics, I did not run one last year, and the dates I asked for this year have still not been approved. I will try again for later in the year.
That said TDSA is a fine place to train, and Scott and his crew are good instructors. Barney at Tactical Teacher is a great person to get training on, Barney plays the CQB game, and he's a riot. Shameless self promotion, I am working on course dates for a CQB course for Ragnarok Tactical for later this year.
CQB does not require, nor recognize any "holster qualifications". You have a RPAL and can buy a pistol? Congrats you can buy a holster and use that too. Also get training - its good for you, and those around you.

youonlywish said:
-Are CQB matches in Ontario friendly to new-comers?
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Super friendly. We'll pair you with an experienced partner for the day and you'll be each other's safety person. We do a practice of some of the harder stuff before we do the full match for score. Most of the guys will offer you tips and lend you anything if you ask.
You're best bet is to come out and give it a shot, if you like it get an ORA membership and then try the other disciplines.

youonlywish said:
-My local range is indoor. Where do you practice the skills needed to participate in a CQB match?
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Indoor range is fine to practice on, I practice at an indoor range some times, or outdoor range, or dry fire at home. You can also show up to the ORA Short Range Practice/Plinking day, usually Sunday after CQB on Saturday to practice.
As long as your range allows you to sling your rifle and use a holster you can practice transitions from (safe & unloaded) rifle to pistol. We never have a holstered pistol with a round in the chamber. We carry the pistol hammer down, mag in. So when you shoot the pistol you have to Draw, Rack the slide, Fire.

Round count for CQB is 200 rifle, 100 pistol for the day.

DINK
 
Dexter Morgan said:
What about slings?

Should my rifle have one?

If so; How should it be attached?
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Blue Force Gear two point sling is what I used to use. Fast and quick to adjust when shooting improvised prone position and helps to support the nose of the carbine. I got ball slapped to many times using a single point.
 
Blue Force Gear two point sling is what I used to use. Fast and quick to adjust when shooting improvised prone position and helps to support the nose of the carbine. I got ball slapped to many times using a single point.
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Thanks.

Where do you attach the two points of the sling?
 
Dexter Morgan said:
What about slings?

Should my rifle have one?

If so; How should it be attached?
Click to expand...

Yes you need one. Transitioning to pistol gets ugly if the rifle has to hit the dirt. The ROs would probably not like that very much but the spectators would think it hilarious.

I use this https://www.magpul.com/products/ms3-sling-gen2. There are lots of good options though. https://www.magpul.com/firearms-accessories/slings/slings

Works as a two point or a one point depending on the application. As for where to attach it to, front can go anywhere on the fore end, typically closer to the gas block the better. Rear mount is typically at the back end of the receiver where the buffer tube threads in, but really its up to you.

As for HOW to attach it, then depends on your gun. Either the clips shown in the Ms3 grabbing standard sling loop thingys or you hard strap it right into the loops, or if you have the QD cups in the right locations you can use the QD mounts. Lots of options there. Most people want something that is quick detachable.
 
rifleman338 said:
Blue Force Gear two point sling is what I used to use. Fast and quick to adjust when shooting improvised prone position and helps to support the nose of the carbine. I got ball slapped to many times using a single point.
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rifleman338 said:
I would attach mine on the left front of the hand guard and the right rear of the stock.
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TRUTH! Adjustable 2 point is the way to go. Right handed shooter- front left of the handguard/front sight block, and right QD point on the stock.
 
Dexter Morgan said:
What about slings?

Should my rifle have one?

If so; How should it be attached?
Click to expand...

A sling is mandatory for CQB, but any sling is appropriate as long as it allows the rifle to hang off your body in front of you. Whether it's 1, 2, or 3 points is a matter of personal preference. I personally like 2-point slings because I don't want my rifle to hit me in the nethers when I transition to pistol.
 
Ganderite said:
Or, use a bayonet and for the transition, just drop the carbine, muzzle down....
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Sweet idea. Does shooting from behind a spiked rifle count as cover? #winning. lol.

On a more serious note, one of the things that has never really sat well with me was the whole business of dumping your gun sin those giant bins.

Maybe I'm just a mall ninja, but me a three gun competition should see the carriage of all three guns for the entire stage.
 
Cameron SS said:
Sweet idea. Does shooting from behind a spiked rifle count as cover? #winning. lol.

On a more serious note, one of the things that has never really sat well with me was the whole business of dumping your gun sin those giant bins.

Maybe I'm just a mall ninja, but me a three gun competition should see the carriage of all three guns for the entire stage.
Click to expand...

No bin drops in CQB. You carry your rifle and pistol with you at all times.
 
Cameron SS said:
Sweet idea. Does shooting from behind a spiked rifle count as cover? #winning. lol.

On a more serious note, one of the things that has never really sat well with me was the whole business of dumping your gun sin those giant bins.

Maybe I'm just a mall ninja, but me a three gun competition should see the carriage of all three guns for the entire stage.
Click to expand...

Yes, One should at least carry for whatever stage you're doing (rifle, pistol or shotgun)
 
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