Questions: BP loading for .38-55 (Lyman Ideal Model Sharps aka Mini Sharps)

PapaZeek

PapaZeek

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Hi folks,

Pretty new at reloading (less than a year) - had pretty good success reloading 'modern' rounds .303BR, 7.62x39, 357 Mag and also black powder loading 577 Snider.

I recently purchased a Lyman Ideal Model Sharps. Seller included some projectiles, I believe they are .38-55 RNFP DLG BB (0.379") unlubed from Rusty Wood and a bag of Winchester .38-55 brass. I've slugged the bore, comes out to .375" at the lands & .379" at the groove (assuming I did this correctly). Planning to develop loads starting with 20-30gr 1.5F Swiss plus appropriate amount of filler (corn meal), each layer separated by cards (overkill I'm thinking but where I want to start). These are largely plinking/target loads not for hunting.

(by the way, if anyone can help, I have no idea what most of those projectile abbreviation letters up there mean... I've got the Round Nose Flat Point part... but the DLG & BB - no clue)

Main holdup now is the lead sizing bits. I have a Lee .38-55 3-die set and I have a .379" H&I sizing die en route, but I'm having a bugger of a time sourcing a #449 top punch... nobody seems to have in stock.

Can anyone offer advice on alternatives on the #449 top punch? Or... given that the bullets I have seem to match the rifle bore - how big a deal is it if I just pan lube the projectiles and load as is?

Oh! Also for lube: The Lyman 4500 I bought for this project came with their black moly which I'm pretty sure I don't want to use for a black powder cartridge... I was planning on just using my own lube (80% beeswax, 20% lard) - suggestions on something better? (Lyman Gold or Magic Orange)

Cheers,
Wade
 
Wade, don't worry about filler. The 38-55 doesn't hold a lot of powder anyway. Look up pan lubing, it's the easiest way.

Those hard bullets are not ideal with black powder but they will work if they are big enough. If they fit into a fireformed case then definitely don't make them any smaller. If you do need to size them ( it's unlikely that you will ), have a look at the Lee push through sizer. No nose punch required.

Be wary of lard as it can have salt in it which is bad. Beeswax and olive oil will work ok, but not great. Adding a bit of lanolin will help. I'd find some SPG or DGL. If you are in B.C., I'm pretty sure Rusty Woods Trading sells SPG. I generally get all of my stuff from Buffalo Arms in the states. There is a Canadian lube that is quite good ( no longer produced ) called Alberta Schuetzen Lube. The recipe is public so you can make it yourself. It has a bunch of ingredients, but it works very well.

Chris.
 
Ok I will still use the bullets that came with the Lyman, but will plan for casting when reloading the next batch.

Lee’s .38-55 mold sufficient, or should I be on the hunt for something else?

Cheers,
Wade
 
It really depends on what your goals are. My 38-55's are mostly schuetzen rifles and the purpose is to get maximum possible accuracy at 200m. For that I do a lot of experimentation and have piles of custom molds :). Mine is not the normal use case though. Off the shelf molds are a good place to start, and definitely the way to go when learning casting. They might end up being all you need depending on your goals for accuracy and distance. If you want short range ( 200 yds and less ) a shorter bullet with a small flat meplat can be really excellent. I shoot a few in the 310gr range. The Lee ones are probably pretty decent as long as the diameters are right. For longer distances a longrr heavier bullet is usually better. One of the most popular ones for shooting at silhouette distances is probably the Lyman Postell which is about 330gr and has a long nose.

It's good that casting is part of your plan. Your rifle will likely be twice as accurate with soft bullets ( somewhere around 20:1 lead/tin) and a good black powder lube than it will with hard bullets, especialy if the bullets are a little undersized.

The 38-55 is also an excellent cartridge to use with smokeless powder. A lot of the old black powder era cartridges have too much case volume to work really well with smokeless. The 38-55 is kind of a sweet spot in that it can be very accurate with either smokeless or black.

Chris.
 
Oh, one more thing. You'll see a lot of people talking about crimping. Don't do that if you want accuracy. The trick with cast bullet accuracy is that the bullets are soft and easily deformed. When crimping them you'll inevitably damage them. Even a tiny bit will affect accuracy potential. Even with smokeless powder. Single shots ( at least for use at the range ) never need a crimp. Most often we load them so that the bullet is engraving the rifling when it's chambered. This also leads to the proper OAL for a single shot rifle with cast bullets. It's never going to be what a loading manual says. What you read in there for the 38-55 will be centered around lever actions and their need for a specific length to get the bullets to cycle through the action. The best place to start with OAL in a cast bullet single shot rifle is to make the cartridge so that it's as long as possible, with the bullet lightly engraving the rifling when you close the action. It might not be the place you end up, but it's the best place to start, unless you are trying to shoot heavy smokeless loads with gas checks for high velocity.

Chris.
 
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One more thing. Your die set should have 3 dies with one of them being the neck expander. It'll have a removable plug. Measure the plug diameter. It wants to be 0.001" or 0.002" smaller than the bullet diameter. That will give you plenty of neck tension. If the plug is too small you run the risk of distorting a soft bullet when seating it. The plug can also be the same diameter of the bullet when using black powder. Black powder can work very well with no neck tension. Often we will skip the resizing and neck expanding step entirely with black powder and simply clean the case and the reprime it and add the powder charge and bullet. This works best if the bullet is a slightly snug fit in a fireformed case. You can then seat it with your fingers and not even use the seating die.

Chris.
 
Some good info in this thread. You can melt out the black moly lube by taking the pressure nut out, propping the lubsizer upside down, and blasting it with a hair dryer. If you place tin foil underneath you can save the old lube for another project. The graphite in the old lube will cause some slight discolouration of anything else run through for a long time. It doesn't affect anything.
 
Ok, loaded up a batch of 20 to try at the range tomorrow. 30 grains Swiss 1.5, card, 10 grains corn meal, card, pan-lubed bullet (beeswax, tallow & grapeseed oil).

I used the expander die to open up the neck a bit then seated the bullet using the seating die (which has a micrometer bullet seater)… no crimp.

Bullets seem to chamber well in the Lyman, I guess we’ll see how they do tomorrow.

Thanks for the advice, very much appreciated.

Cheers,
Wade
 
manicmechanic said:
I’m in the process of reloading for a 38-55 Marlin lever rifle my brother inherited. Thanks for sharing your experience to all who contributed.
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One thing to know about those old Marlin 93 38-55's is that barrel bore consistency was not their strong point, they can slug from .375 up to .382 in some extreme cases so slugging your bore & fitting the slug you will use is almost requisite to achieve accuracy.
 
fingers284 said:
One thing to know about those old Marlin 93 38-55's is that barrel bore consistency was not their strong point, they can slug from .375 up to .382 in some extreme cases so slugging your bore & fitting the slug you will use is almost requisite to achieve accuracy.
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Thanks for the advice - my online research also found mention of the older rifles having a wide range of bore diameters.
It's a more recently manufactured rifle IIRC & was in very good condition that grouped well with ammo left by the previous owner.
My brother was going to order some cowboy cartridges until he priced them out.. pretty expensive for plinking!
This will likely end up as a winter project by the time I round enough information about this chambering, have the time to check the rifle out & the time to tackle it.
 
LOL - sorry I may have led you astray. When I said more recent I meant toward the end of the 1893's production run in the mid 1930's as it's supposed to have a 5 digit serial number. It's still an old rifle but appears to have had a pampered life.

There are references on Marlin forums of 336 Cowboy rifles chambered in 38-55 during the late 90's - mid 2000's - no idea if any made their way north of the 49th.
 
manicmechanic said:
PapaZeek - wondered how the new rifle & reloads worked for you on the weekend & how good was the accuracy?

Did you cut your own cards or buy them?

I was planning on using IMR4198 with the same bullet with a mix of older CIL / Dominion & some newer Starline brass.

Thanks Tom
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I cut my own cards out of empty milk cartons using a 3/8” hole punch I picked up on Amazon.

Cheers,
Wade
 
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